Idea for forum:

[TearValerin]

This ^ I am reaching my 10 character limit. Don't you have a Gungnir anyways? Why discount Empyrean WS if using a Relic weapon? =P

All Gungnir is doing for me is decent TP phase damage, its base weapon damage does almost nothing for Drakesbane's WSC. On top of that, Drakesbane isn't an Empyrean WS, has pretty damn low FTP, where on the other hand, smite has a lot higher WSC mods/FTP. WAR and MNK who brag about ridiculous damage with Ukko's/Smite are lolable when there is a job who can do comparable damage without ridiculous gear to do so.

[Greatguardian]

All Gungnir is doing for me is decent TP phase damage, its base weapon damage does almost nothing for Drakesbane's WSC. On top of that, Drakesbane isn't an Empyrean WS, has pretty damn low FTP, where on the other hand, smite has a lot higher WSC mods/FTP. WAR and MNK who brag about ridiculous damage with Ukko's/Smite are lolable when there is a job who can do comparable damage without ridiculous gear to do so.

4.0 fTP isn't super low. It's also a D:133 weapon. Victory Smite, comparatively, is a 5.25 fTP WS with a D:79 weapon and 10% more WSC from STR (before alpha). Also, you asked for non-Empyrean WS, so I used a Mythic WS like your SS and outdid it by 17%. That was long before I had Verethragna, too so I was really using a D:68 weapon with a WS with 2.0 fTP and only a 50% VIT mod over Drakes.

[TearValerin]

4.0 fTP isn't super low. It's also a D:133 weapon. Victory Smite, comparatively, is a 5.25 fTP WS with a D:79 weapon and 10% more WSC from STR (before alpha). Also, you asked for non-Empyrean WS, so I used a Mythic WS like your SS and outdid it by 17%. That was long before I had Verethragna, too so I was really using a D:68 weapon with a WS with 2.0 fTP and only a 50% VIT mod over Drakes.

1. Damage on the weapon does little to nothing for Drakesbane, you will see similar numbers whether its Corseca +2, Vougier's Contus, Rhongo, or Gungnir.

2. Drakesbane is 4 hit, and only has 1.0 FTP. In order for it to have 4, it would have to have a description like Blade: Hi that says 'deals quadrple damage.' Or Rudra's etc. Fourfold means 4 hits, not 4 FTP like Hi.

3. Refering back to point 1, your ws are heavily DMG dependant, mine aren't. Drakesbane is a beast with average mods.

Where is your source on Clionids taking more damage? I've ran a search and only see posts of them taking half damage from magic under certain circumstances while casting.

[Greatguardian]

1. Damage on the weapon does little to nothing for Drakesbane, you will see similar numbers whether its Corseca +2, Vougier's Contus, Rhongo, or Gungnir.

2. Drakesbane is 4 hit, and only has 1.0 FTP. In order for it to have 4, it would have to have a description like Blade: Hi that says 'deals quadrple damage.' Or Rudra's etc. Fourfold means 4 hits, not 4 FTP like Hi.

3. Refering back to point 1, your ws are heavily DMG dependant, mine aren't. Drakesbane is a beast with average mods.

Where is your source on Clionids taking more damage? I've ran a search and only see posts of them taking half damage from magic under certain circumstances while casting.

The fTP listed on wiki is only for the first hit in any WS... all subsequent hits are 1.0 fTP. That's where I'm getting those values from. Base damage is also a fairly big deal, considering WSC is affected by Alpha. Smite gets a measly 20%* more WSC from STR than Drakesbane, I'm not sure how that makes such a huge difference.

Are you Wafflechan? Honestly, I couldn't care less about having higher WS numbers. I just thought it was funny that you had a 4.6k WS in your sig (Yes, it's 4.6k taking that piercing bonus out).

* 60% vs 50%, so a 20% increase. Or, 10% more of Str pre-Alpha, 8.5% of Str post-Alpha, etc etc. All in all, with 200~ STR, maybe 17 more WSC?

[TearValerin]

The fTP listed on wiki is only for the first hit in any WS... all subsequent hits are 1.0 fTP. That's where I'm getting those values from. Base damage is also a fairly big deal, considering WSC is affected by Alpha. Smite gets literally 8.5% more WSC from STR than Drakesbane, I'm not sure how that makes such a huge difference.

Are you Wafflechan? Honestly, I couldn't care less about having higher WS numbers. I just thought it was funny that you had a 4.6k WS in your sig (Yes, it's 4.6k taking that piercing bonus out).

Yes, and the first hit, and all the hits of Drakes are all 1, and since Polearms are high DMG weapons, adding extra DMG doesn't affect the damage that much (especially during Drakesbane which is a high base D weaponskill.) Regardless, I have it in my sig because it was my first WS pic after I got to try Drakesbane in Abyssea. No, I don't know what a Wafflechan is either.

[Greatguardian]

Yes, and the first hit, and all the hits of Drakes are all 1, and since Polearms are high DMG weapons, adding extra DMG doesn't affect the damage that much (especially during Drakesbane which is a high base D weaponskill.) Regardless, I have it in my sig because it was my first WS pic after I got to try Drakesbane in Abyssea. No, I don't know what a Wafflechan is either.

Oh okay, thought I'd ask. Apparently I'm e-famous and have my own thread on FFXIAH for "e-peening the official forums". I'm not sure what you mean, though. Drakesbane is a 4.0 fTP 50% STR WS. So, let's assume you have 200 STR in Abyssea, you're looking at 85 WSC to add to your base damage of 133. You're still getting way more out of the base damage of your weapon than you are from WSC. If you have less than 200 STR, the gap widens and you gain even more from your weapon's base damage than WSC.

Edit: In the above scenario, every 1 damage you add to Gungnir (90) is a .5% increase in WS damage. Not horrible, but better than the equivalent in WSC.