Please remove COP requirements on reforged relic and AF

[AppropriateName5786]

And yet you're insisting that new players trudge through said 11 years of content because somehow, somewhere, it's related?

The sensible and logical arguments for not blocking content for new players have been made so many times, it's pretty clear everyone who is against this change simply cannot see further than the tip of their nose. I ascribe it to a lack of intellect, and Zarchery is one of the worst culprits.

This group of players is very zealous, I'll give them that. However, their zeal for FFXI is so selfish and misdirected that SE itself would probably be horrified if they cared to look into the situation. It's like Sears or some other old giant chain with dedicated shoppers who is getting hugely outdone by Walmart/Target, and trying to keep itself afloat by finally making changes to rectify some old inefficiencies (e.g. doing monthly updates now). Little did Sears know, though, that their loyal but highly stubborn, stuck-up, and very self-entitled baby boomer customers flip off younger shoppers as a habit, and when some new shoppers suggested to Sears that they play some upbeat music to make shopping even more enjoyable, a group of baby boomers gathered with pitchforks and torches and yelled "If you don't like things the way they are, get out!"

[Mefuki]

But this is not like how leveling used to be where you COULD NOT progress without other people. Where if the correct jobs or people weren't online, you were dead in the water.

Or Legion, where you simply weren't "allowed" to join without the "correct" jobs. Where if you were only interested in playing with the "wrong" job, you were dead in the water.

Heck, even current Delve I could CONCEIVE how someone would think that even IT is a minor "roadblock" because you still need to know some people who are decently geared and know the NM's strategies etc.

I could go on but the point for me is not so much that this is a bad idea per se. It's that, out of all the accessibility issues the game has and SE is attempting to rectify, it's really not worth complaining about. There's nothing "dead in the water" or "roadblock"-y about CoP. You just have to go and do it, on your own or with others, any time you want. So, I don't see the issue.

[Andros]

Look at it this way: you at least are able to gather the requirements necessary to obtain those items immediately when you unlock sea. You're a lucky one.

If I was new wanted to play as a SCH, I would need to clear CoP for obis. For these, I would need the drops from sea creatures, which outside of a select few, are completely unobtainable until I get there. Has SE done anything about this? No. Did I ever see anyone complain about this? No, until now, people would rather complain about not being able to finish the items that you can get the materials from by doing whatever you want (even CoP missions). It's been 7 years for me and this is how far we've come.

SE COULD remove these restrictions, but certain newer players will continue to get screwed over and turned away from the game! That is why this suggestion is absolutely terrible. If I was a newer player I'd be rushed to complete CoP so I could farm the items for obis so I could lvl SCH- not for the items that are BEYOND max level that I already get items needed for them by doing whatever. When will I be allowed to work on Obis without sea? Brutal/Loq earring? tamas/rajas/sattva? WS gorgets? Or will these just be forgotten until the next forum complaint? I'm saying all this because I have no problem with a change like this at all if it actually covered the complete issue here.

I only decided to post this because I am the SCH and had to go through the same 'rush' except often I had no hope of progress thanks to battlefields. I've even finished CoP twice now, once before and after the changes. Did I quit because of NEEDing to do CoP? No. I really wanted to back when I couldn't find a party to complete it, but the fact that is was a daunting task back then and gave me stuff to do made it all the more rewarding and fun when I completed it. Doing CoP without the fear of battlefields was the most relaxing time I've had in this game. Remembering that people needed teleports to prom-Vahzl islands in case they couldn't complete them all before people had to go made me laugh as I cleared it in minutes.

It's funny because the missions that make CoP get so much hate now are so obviously The Road Forks and Three Paths. Just look at this gap between Promyvions and Aqueducts, two CSs right next to eachother. I'm really missing that website that was completely devoted to CoP mission strategies right about now.

[Olor]

I didn't pretend this would fix everything. Personally, I'd like to see items like the elemental obis have more than one method of obtaining them (or obtaining something like them). That said, expecting a suggestion to fix every problem in existence in order to support it is a pretty high bar to set, don't you think?

I appreciate your measured response, however. There is definitely a larger problem with certain jobs (SMN is the worst) needing ridiculous amounts of leg work to be usable. I don't like that, but it's something I am willing to accept because I could work on other, easier to equip jobs. But now, EVERY JOB is roadblocked by COP. It sucks. I am really unhappy about this. I am torn. I want to cancel my sub to send a message but I love the game... this puts me in a hard position. That said, this roadblock upset me so much I haven't logged in since I discovered it, so I'd probably just be wasting my crysta if I continue my sub.

Again, I appreciate your input Andros.

[Karbuncle]

Conversely, Limbus was released barely six months before the release of Treasures of Aht Urhgan (and one month after teaser shots, including the new jobs, were first shown to the public), and the lore surrounding it ties extremely heavily to the soon-to-be-released expansion. Nag'molada can't even bring himself to say "Temenos" ("Ou'Hpat Obelisk," anyone?) but "Aht Urhgan" and "Blue Mage" got name-dropped.

Okay, I thought about this on the way to work and kicked myself for not bringing it up. Sorry if you've responded but heres the thing . Why would the Beastmen of the Mindartia and (Quon?) Continent have any knowledge of Near eastern jobs?

Lore wise, None of the beastmen on our continent should know a darn thing about BLU, PUP, or COR, because none of those jobs existed on these Continents during the time in question, therefor, regardless of those jobs being in the game, none of the beastmen in Dynamis or Temenos era (Temenos era i think dates back to the Kuluu!) would have any knowledge on how to be a PUP, COR, or BLU.

Theres no Mamool Ja teaching Quadavs how to BLU, no Trolls teaching them Orcs... and so forth. These jobs don't exist in this content simply because lore wise the Beastmen did not know of these jobs, as the Near Eastern culture is distinct and almost entirely cut off from our mainland, and actually actively avoided the Crystal War conflict.

Thus, their lack of appearance in those events fits into lore.

As far as job retcons. DRG itself I believe left some "huh" questions. If i recall, DRG even during the Crystal War were and in current times, both cited in the DRG quest and by Achtelle, were extinct or incredibly rare. Their existence in the Hydra corps itself is rather unusual. Exact quotes from Achtelle are

"Are you ... a dragoon!? That is a most welcome relief. I had come to ascertain for myself whether or not there are still those to carry on the ways of our kind."

.
So the existence of DRGs in Dynamis itself i believe is a mystery as very few were even known to exist back then, to the point Achtelle believes they are all but lost to time. So is this a past retcon or future?!

This isn't concrete though, just in game text, and I can't find the scripts of the DRG quest line but I think I do recall it revolving around the loss of the DRG trade as a job and refinding it or something.... Vampires IDK.

And yet you're insisting that new players trudge through said 11 years of content because somehow, somewhere, it's related?

Theres a fine difference between digging through 13 years of lore on a Wiki page and a screen with no exact info on where or what I'm going to find, and Completing a highly rewarding and well made Mission storyling in an MMO. Though, if you think FFXI is as boring as digging through wiki documents with no clear cut end in site I wonder why you still play. ! But srsly, you made the comparison first I'm just saying.

Mirage actually provided a logic step I was thinking about at work today. I'd accept a removal of Relic from the CoP grasps. Anyway, this argument is straying into "Getting offended/Taking it personally" and short quipped responses from you, instead of what it is, a simple debate of views, so I'll probably be getting off this ride soon as I don't want the thread locked or either of us suspended over something dumb >_>

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Why would the Beastmen of the Mindartia and (Quon?) Continent have any knowledge of Near eastern jobs?

Why would Yagudo know about Dragoon, or Orcs about Summoner? Why would either be lugging around gear for Aradjiah jobs?

Lore wise, None of the beastmen on our continent should know a darn thing about BLU, PUP, or COR, because none of those jobs existed on these Continents during the time in question,

Lore-wise, the Moblins of Movalpolos were looking for Alzadaal.

(Temenos era i think dates back to the Kuluu!)

But at least one Orc in Temenos dates back to the Crystal War, as cited both by the Tribune and Wings of the Goddess quests.

Theres no Mamool Ja teaching Quadavs how to BLU, no Trolls teaching them Orcs... and so forth.

And yet the Mamool Ja hang out with Sahagin and the Trolls with Goblins.

These jobs don't exist in this content simply because lore wise the Beastmen did not know of these jobs, as the Near Eastern culture is distinct and almost entirely cut off from our mainland,

The reason the Allied Forces were surprised by Aht Urhgan's lack of military support was specifically because of the strong ties the empire had with the marquisette (which you'll note is the source of many "Near Eastern" equipment and ingredients). Their unwillingness to send troops did not preclude Aht Urhgan from selling arms to (at least) Windurst (as per WotG quests). A renown Bastokan general "retired" to Aht Urhgan, and a renown Aht Urhgan alchemist runs the guild in Bastok Mines (and he's been there since before Rise of the Zilart!).

Theres a fine difference between digging through 13 years of lore on a Wiki page and a screen with no exact info on where or what I'm going to find, and Completing a highly rewarding and well made Mission storyling in an MMO.

If it's so engaging, why can't you remember it? If it's so rewarding, why can't you be bothered to experience it again for the sake of your memory? Your actions (and complete lack thereof) speak louder than your words.

Though, if you think FFXI is as boring as digging through wiki documents

I'm not the one complaining. I'm also not the one demanding new players to go through content you personally can't remember and can't be bothered to remind yourself of.

[Olor]

Theres a fine difference between digging through 13 years of lore on a Wiki page and a screen with no exact info on where or what I'm going to find, and Completing a highly rewarding and well made Mission storyling in an MMO. Though, if you think FFXI is as boring as digging through wiki documents with no clear cut end in site I wonder why you still play. ! But srsly, you made the comparison first I'm just saying.

Except that the only way to make it through said "rewarding storyline" is to be buried in wiki documents. Or are you suggesting I should somehow make it through three paths by reading the mission log, which tells me exactly nothing? Honestly, if the story itself carried me from place to place in a sensible way without necessitating keeping a second screen open to the wiki, COP might not be so tedious.

[Lithera]

Thus the argument about having a visible way or not to about where quests or missions were started and then continue if not a change to the in game quest and mission help info. On the QoL thread which so far SE said sorry but we can't.

[Olor]

Thus the argument about having a visible way or not to about where quests or missions were started and then continue if not a change to the in game quest and mission help info. On the QoL thread which so far SE said sorry but we can't.

Yeah, I was disappointed in this. At the very least they could update mission log text - or maybe put COP/other missions in Records of Eminence? Like if it unlocked one at a time, "talk to cid in the metalworks" to give you instructions where to go? Maybe just give each one 1 exp and 1 spark...

Cause personally I don't think flipping back and forth from the game to the wiki to be very fun times.

[Crevox]

I would like to bump this thread, as it is still a great suggestion that would greatly benefit the game and newbie players. More than ever, newbie players can use any amount of assistance in order to get them up to speed with everyone else.

Being someone who completed CoP after finding out about this requirement (and being distraught like the OP), I would like to further suggest this change in order to keep more people playing FFXI and improve the game going forward.

This topic, suggestion, and the thoughts within, are as relevant as ever, even after the long time that this thread has been dormant. Many people still feel very strongly about this, and I'm hoping that SE can take a second look and reconsider their position on it.