I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Afania]

The player population that S-E is trying to foster and cater to by having their website linking to strategy sites and having their GM's promote them.

Even if I grant you that "most players" aren't like that, it's certainly what S-E wants most players to be like, which gets back to the "intent" you were so recently in favor of following.

You keep directing the arguement back to "FFXI is better with a !", but my arguement has been about "IMO, RPG is more fun without a ! and design the game based on the fact that there are no !"

If the game needs ! to know where to go next, then the goal is to make it NOT needing !(nor wiki). I honestly just can't understand what's so good about ! on the map and all that ! obsessions.

because that game doesn't have as many things that are designed to suck the life out of you

I know a tons of no-lifers in XIV, playing 12+ hrs a day.

How much time you spend on a video game per day isn't relevant to the title, but your own willpower.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

my arguement has been about "IMO, RPG is more fun without a ! and design the game based on the fact that there are no !"

Your argument is that any additional assistance is not strictly necessary (in spite of the publisher shaping the game toward that need and actively directing players to outside "community" sources) and that your opinion is "more correct" and shared by a non-negligible portion of the playerbase despite objective facts to the contrary.

If the game needs ! to know where to go next, then the goal is to make it NOT needing !(nor wiki).

That ship has sailed. I'd say that ship sailed even before FFXI got released in North America. I was halfway to Toraimarai Canal (try that before level 10!) before I used the Brady guide to find that it was another non-obvious secret passage I needed for my very first mission.

That's not going to be "fixed" without effectively writing a whole new game. Square-Enix has already done that; it's called "Final Fantasy XIV."

I honestly just can't understand what's so good about ! on the map and all that ! obsessions.

The official source of information, the Community Sites program, has stagnated, with the most recent additions being in 2009. The community itself has fragmented, to the point where the most useful sources of information aren't even a part of the Community Sites program, while participation overall has dwindled. What worked seven years ago doesn't work now. This is the biggest reason why S-E has chosen to do all this stuff in-house with XIV rather than again relying on the community, in spite of that community being larger and more vibrant than XI's perhaps ever was.

The simplest solution would be publishing useful information directly onto playonline.com. The most useful solution, however, the one that helps attract and keep new players to this old game, is to employ something in-client, even if it is unobtrusive enough to spare your precious sensibilities.

Even now nobody is forcing you to talk to a Merry Map Marker.

[detlef]

If I want brain-dead questing I just play 14. Spam enter and just look to the side of my screen to know exactly what to do, what to kill, and where to go. Teleport there if necessary, hop onto my chocobo and I'm done.

I feel bad for that game's writers, nobody even reads what they wrote.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

If I want brain-dead questing

Then don't do it that way.

I myself don't like the new icons used for spells and abilities on PC and Xbox 360. But rather than denouncing the new icons for being too WoW-ish for my glorious 1337ness ("You need a unique icon for every spell? Can't be bothered to read the spell name? GTFO n00b!"), I simply went into the menus, changed from the new default back to the old icons, and got on with my life.

[detlef]

Then don't do it that way.

I myself don't like the new icons used for spells and abilities on PC and Xbox 360. But rather than denouncing the new icons for being too WoW-ish for my glorious 1337ness ("You need a unique icon for every spell? Can't be bothered to read the spell name? GTFO n00b!"), I simply went into the menus, changed from the new default back to the old icons, and got on with my life.

Yikes, you have such a terrible attitude when you post. You can refute my statement without acting like I pooped in your laundry hamper.

Anyway, I don't have a horse in this race. I really don't have an issue with anything that has made the game easier. If they make quests easier so be it. My only concern is that it seems like it would take a lot of development effort to implement changes to what may not be a problem. My issue with the OP's complaints boil down to two things: I am fine with game content being locked behind mission progression and I like the Mythic quest the way it is (with a few minor changes like faster assault tags, more favorable ToAU king spawn conditions, and things of that nature). Anything else, I don't really have an issue with. I just think the problems are being exaggerated.

[Crevox]

It's not "brain-dead" if they give you some kind of hint on where to go. People who quest in this game do not sit there magically trying to figure out where they are supposed to go. Anyone who does a quest in this game does it because they know they need something from it, and when they do, they alt tab to the wiki and look at what they're supposed to do, because the NPCs do not TELL you with enough detail the majority of the time. As was the example in the earlier pages, she tells you to search the ENTIRE DESERT.

It doesn't become "brain dead" if she tells you some kind of HINT as to where it is. People do read the quest dialogue; but as you can prove time and time again, don't even dare try to trust it to give enough information on what to do to complete the quest they're giving you.

That goes for missions too.

[detlef]

When I said brain-dead I meant 14. I was trying to say that implementing the exact same system into XI would be brain-dead, like 14 is. I think that that would be too extreme and would be long and difficult to program. Something like minor alterations to the quest log or NPC dialog is something I would support.

I don't see it as the huge problem you do, but I am not against what you're suggesting.

[Crevox]

I don't see it as the huge problem you do, but I am not against what you're suggesting.

Honestly I personally think it's too much work to go back and revise a bunch of quests at this point.

However, for stuff like reforging AF, you shouldn't have to complete CoP. You can leave the quests as they are; if people want to do it for the story or whatever, cool, they can do that. However, it shouldn't be a requirement for important things like reforging your AF armor, when you don't even need to visit Limbus or anything to do that.

[detlef]

However, for stuff like reforging AF, you shouldn't have to complete CoP. You can leave the quests as they are; if people want to do it for the story or whatever, cool, they can do that. However, it shouldn't be a requirement for important things like reforging your AF armor, when you don't even need to visit Limbus or anything to do that.

I still have my own opinion, but if you and others feel that strongly about it, then the devs will hopefully see that and do what they have to do. Mythics requirements should still be significant though, aside from easing up on the more restrictive stuff like I mentioned before.

[Camiie]

If I want brain-dead questing I just play 14. Spam enter and just look to the side of my screen to know exactly what to do, what to kill, and where to go. Teleport there if necessary, hop onto my chocobo and I'm done.

I feel bad for that game's writers, nobody even reads what they wrote.

Brain dead questing? That'd be FOV, GOV, and ROE. They're quests without ANY pretense of story AT ALL. At least in XIV or WoW you get some flimsy excuse as to why the local Spriggan population must die or why the Horde needs 10 snake toenails. XI's devs are not even trying anymore with the quests that actually are worth doing.