I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Now here's an interesting case study!

• The amount of fame required to undertake certain quests in the Kingdom of San d'Oria, the Republic of Bastok, the Federation of Windurst, the Grand Duchy of Jeuno, Selbina, Mhaura, the Tenshodo, and other areas that require fame rank will be reduced.

Somewhere, out there, beneath the pale blue sky of /regionmap, certain quest access conditions are being adjusted. This is supposedly being done for new players, since old players certainly don't need help accessing quests they've already completed.

S-E is clearly relying no "the community" to get the information on these new quest adjustments to new players. But currently "the community" is spread among at least three different wikis, because we, being a bunch of MMO-playing shut-ins, apparently suck at building and maintaining communities.

But let's pretend we're all looking at the mythical "One True Wiki." We'll even pretend that the One True Wiki happens to be the only wiki currently linked to from playonline.com (since "check out the Community Sites!" is a GM's answer for everything from graphical glitches to the Bastokan Blight). Will the information on these particular quests actually get updated?

Someone will have to go through and experiment with these quests themselves to find out what quests are affected and what the new conditions are. But there is every reason to believe that many of those dedicated wiki contributors have long since quit FFXI, meaning there are fewer such dedicated individuals to even try this.

On top of that, this is content for which a wiki contributor would have to create a new character. So these dedicated contributors would not only need to still exist but also need to be committed enough to pay for at least one more mule on their account.

So the chance of meaningful information on this subject being made available to new players through a "Community Site" are still slim to none. And a new player would have no reason to believe that the information they are looking at is out-of-date.

The result: no change in the situation at all. Because the game and its developers make no effort to disseminate such information, new players have no reason to question the information as pretended in the Community Sites (that hasn't been updated since Firefly was still on TV). So new players will still spend their time grinding cabbages and necklaces, get frustrated, and quit before their 14+30 day trial ends.

But even if the devs, in a change of heart, decided to publish this specific information in the update notes directly, they'd still be expecting a new player to sit down and trudge through twelve years of update notes to dig up that particular gem.

[Lithera]

Lol now I can see one of the reasons she quit XIV. All of the skip the CS or gtfo people running a non premade group through one of the two end dungeons of the original story part mentality.

Let's see games that have a ! Go here next X-2 had that a lot. Anytime you picked up a cieth stone quest once you were on grand pulse had a ! style quest system in XIII. Also was there in XIII 2 and will be in Lighting returns. Sure it might not be on the main screen and only on the mini map but it's there. He'll it's there in every Aassins Creed game in the map. Even sky rim to a point has it. Just it is hidden.

Wait you mean there wasn't any just spam enter on any server when it came/comes to voting on what to get next for each coalition house? Must be only shiva where this runs out of control.

[Demonjustin]

Or rather, just skip every dialogue because the ! is going to tell you where to go next anyways.

Exactly the same as when people use wikis.

I am pointing out that by saying that they should not add these things, when the result of not adding them is that people will only continue to look things up on Wiki instead, is breaking the immersion of the game all the same. If people wouldn't use a Wiki, they won't use these, if they would use a Wiki, they will use these so long as they know they exist.

As someone who've been playing RPG before silly ! exist on the map, I find able to know where to go WITHOUT having to read the NPC conversation is just silly in a RPG.

I am not new to RPGs either, but it does not change anything, you find it silly, don't use it, I am not going to keep wasting my time telling you the exact same things over and over again when you act like a 5 year old and ignore it every time I tell you that every one of the things I mentioned could be ignored if you chose. If you choose not to ignore it, you are the same kind of person that will go look at a wiki anyways if you can, that means if they add it in game or not, what a NPC says will be just as meaningful, or meaningless, regardless of if the information is presented in game through menus, maps, or markers, rather than through dialog.

I already said everything I want to say about Mythic in another thread, so there's no point to reply here anymore.

So then don't bring it up.

Considering plenty of single player RPG has no ! on the map and ppl beat the game just fine, I can argue that "great deal" of player won't mind having to read a little bit more text.

That simply depends on age. The majority of RPGs have adapted a marker system of some sort in modern gaming with only collectibles being left to find on your own in most cases, some games even mark those for you as well. Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, I could list off a ton of RPGs if I cared to put thought into it that all have a marker system for main objectives, side missions, items, or multiple other things. Also, games that are close worlded games such as most Final Fantasy games are, as well as older RPGs in general, those hardly had anywhere near the open world experience that FFXI has where we have hardly any guidance, by compare, the story in FFXI has hardly any pointers telling you where to go outside of vague reference. This is very unlike a game like FFX or FFXII, the predecessor and successor of this game in the same series, both of which were very straight forward in where you needed to go at all times, FFX was more linear than FFXI or FFXII, while FFXII had markers for Hunts, gave a reminder at the bottom of your map of where to go, and the characters in the CSs almost always mentioned a fairly accurate description of where to go to get where you needed to be.

So, let me sum this up by saying, you have a very narrow view of what a RPG is, or should be, and seem to ignore the majority of newer RPGs as well. I have played many RPGs in my life, and I have the ability to see that the changes that could be made and you object to, are modern changes, enhancements to the game, not detriments, I have give you the reasons why repeatedly, and you ignore them every time simply saying the exact, same, thing, that doesn't even address what I said, which reminds me, the next bit of your post...

No, ! isn't needed in any RPG. And it's annoying to have.

For ****s sake then turn it off! Why is that so hard to grasp!?

I just explained, he isn't interested nor excited, because he no longer has a goal.

No, actually, you just explained you don't know him, multiple times you said that, and yet you think that somehow you can infer his entire reasoning for not playing this game having never even met him simply because of how you view it. I just explained that through talking to him, I believe I have an understanding, not that I do, not that I know it 100%, that I believe I have an understanding of how he feels. If I can't tell and I am his friend, what in the world makes you think that you know the cause so well? Fact is, you don't.

He isn't interested in the game, because he already experienced everything he wanted to. He's "done" with the game. Unless a goal that'd spark his interest pops. Removing the obstacle isn't going to get him back.

Which I am sure is exactly why when a mention was made about the ability to do things more easily alone, as well as the game being made more accessible and easier for him to catch up on, is the only time when he showed any interest on returning to the game in more than a year. The obstacles being removed or eased weren't anything to do with it, no, some magical mystical goal was found in those words that somehow sparked his interest in returning after a year of saying he wouldn't come back due to lack of time and lack of wanting to have to do all of the BS involved in getting back into the game as he was.

Think of it this way, if your goal of life is to be an oscar award winner, so you spend all your life and money making a film trying to win the award. You're often broke and starve on the street for your film, but you insist to continue. One day a company want to hire you as a cashier, now you no longer have to worry about your money. But you would no longer have time to work on your film, and must give up your dream to win an oscar award.

Now you have 2 choices, try to pursue your epic goal of life and continue to work on your film, but you have to deal with the obstacle(often starve on the street)

Or give up your dream and get a full time job, and no longer deal with the obstacle?

In real life, some people would pick option 1, sacrifice everything for 1 epic goal. Some of people would pick option 2, easier life but nothing epic.

In FFXI, some people would pick option 1, sacrifice a lot of free time/family time/sleep time/w/e for 1 epic goal in a video game, some people would pick option 2, not to chase after a goal for easier life, which is don't play FFXI(or play FFXI very casually).

And whoever picked option 1, eventually would have to face a situation: After spending entire life working toward a goal, their goals are accomplished.

So you finally won an oscar award after sacrificed everything you have in your life, and now you're done with this goal. You no longer have to sleep on the street because your movie is done.

In FFXI, if your goal is done, you won't have a reason to keep playing anymore. With obstacles or not. That may be the reason why some ppl don't play anymore.

I'm gonna be quite honest, I am not even going to bother formulating a proper response to this, I am going to be blunt.

Choice 1 is basically giving up on what could be a chance to live a decent life, though not what you necessarily want at the time, in order to fast track your way to getting what you want but at the same time suffer the risk of never getting it, and dying a pointless wasted life because you refused an offer you had that could have improved your life. Choice 2 is basically accepting an offer given, possibly improving your life, and not necessarily removing all options for completing your goals in the future. You're giving that, which is a real life example of someone I would consider a complete moron for picking 1, and comparing it to a person who deprives themselves of sleep, hygiene, food, or other real life things that are needed, so that they can complete something in a game. If you honestly think that choice 1 when it comes to FFXI is actually sane, healthy, or in any way a good choice to make, sacrificing your real life so you can do something in a game in the way it seems you are talking about it, then you likely have some issues you need to deal with, because no one, no matter the game, should be putting their real life at risk, be that through starvation, sickness, loss of their job or anything of the sort.

Your friend(and my friend too) isn't coming back, because they no longer feel the goal in FFXI important to them, it's as simple as that. The goal used to be important to me, that's why I kept playing.

When you meet and know him, you let me know, then, and only then, will anything you say about him, his opinion, or his reasons for quitting or failing to return, will carry any weight, you see, last time you posted I cared not that you said anything because you phrased it in a way that made everything you sound as though it were thoughts on the subject, not facts, not something you believe is the actual case here, but rather an opinion on a situation given details around it. This post you have went the entire opposite direction in your post, for that reason, you lost all respectable grounds your argument had to stand on with me.

Maybe everyone play FFXI for different reasons, some play it because of their friends, some play it because it's part of their life style. Some play it because they have emotional attachment, some play it because they want a Mythic and quit. But no matter what their goals are, obstacles isn't what'd affect their decision, unless their goal no longer important to them.

No. It is not a matter of if the goal itself is important, it is a matter of one's motivation to achieve such a goal even if they must surpass the obstacles in their path. If you set to many obstacles between a person and their goal there will always be a breaking point where one will choose to give up, that is an irrefutable fact. No matter what someone wants, there is a point where they will not do what is needed to achieve it, many people would not risk their lives in order to attain a goal of winning an award if they had to suffer through months or years of a terrible life just to attain that end result, it is a matter of how much motivation someone has to achieve that which determines if they actually proceed through the obstacle.

The fact of the matter is, simply because someone does not choose to suffer in a way that increases their chances of achieving their goal, does not mean that it is no longer important to them, simply that they have not determined that goal worth the cost required to obtain it, be that cost suffering, money, time, effort, it matters not, it is a cost, and one the person may not be willing to pay in the end.

[Bukota]

Now you have 2 choices, try to pursue your epic goal of life …

Or give up your dream and get a full time job, and no longer deal with the obstacle…

In real life, some people would pick option 1, sacrifice everything for 1 epic goal…

In FFXI, some people would pick option 1, sacrifice a lot of free time/family time/sleep time/w/e for 1 epic goal in a video game…

And whoever picked option 1, eventually would have to face a situation: After spending entire life working toward a goal, their goals are accomplished…

I was deeply disturbed by your response.

I had to re-read your post multiple times, but did finally reach the conclusion that you were in fact talking about an online roleplaying game.

I think this opens a window for all of us as to why several here would mount opposition to a genuine call for help such a Crevox’s.

Clearly your sentiments above are a reflection of your own personal sacrifices you’ve made over the years to “enjoy” this game.

And selfishly, you can’t bear to see others reach their goals without incurring the same losses.

Allow me to state with as much sarcasm as can possibly be mustered:

Your version of the game sounds absolutely thrilling…

[Xantavia]

Let me give you an example.

I recently went back and did the Rank 3 dragon fight as a level 33. The fight was easy to solo at 33, but it still felt pretty epic, since it used to be 25 capped. After all these years, the cutscenes have held up well, the story is good, and there is something satisfying about smashing a dragon in the face.

This is what I wish more people would be willing to do. You went for a fight without being totally overpowered for it. By being a level where you most likely couldn't attack then go AFK, I'm sure it didn't feel like a grind. But if you waited until 99, I think you may have asked yourself why did you even bother.

[Crevox]

This is what I wish more people would be willing to do. You went for a fight without being totally overpowered for it. By being a level where you most likely couldn't attack then go AFK, I'm sure it didn't feel like a grind. But if you waited until 99, I think you may have asked yourself why did you even bother.

It may have been an enjoyable fight. There were some fights I had to do (Avatar fights, etc) that of course WERE "difficult" and enjoyable. But, regardless of that, depending on the fight, sometimes you just don't want to be bothered. A lot of the time it's stuff you have to do just because you have to do it; and you feel like you're not getting any reward out of it. Besides that, yeah, sometimes the fights are fun even if you overpower them. But, the majority of the time, it's not a fight, it's a long string of running/warping/talking before you finally get to a fight, and often times it's not story important, it's just some random mob you have to kill in a field.

All those CoP battlefields/emptiness; they come at you periodically. None of them reward you with anything. You know that everyone has already done them, and in order to get to the content THEY are doing and be a good player, you have to get through them. You have to do them just to be able to play with other people, because you're essentially playing "catch up." This makes them feel like a chore (not to mention the facts I already stated, like that it's just hours of running). It's tedious; and when you complete one and you look at the mission list and you see there's still like 6 entire chapters to go (with no rewards), and some people say "upcoming chapter X is the worst, it takes forever"... yeah, that's not a thrilling experience. Especially when it's a solo endeavor, and no, doing it with friends does not make it faster or more enjoyable. Doing something that is extremely boring and then forcing a friend to do it too just makes me feel bad.

It basically comes down to this. I log in and all my friends are online. Awesome. I could play with my friends and go EXP or try something fun, OR, I can ignore all of them and for the sake of my character, go do a bunch of boring solo missions. We all know we have to do it, but if we're all online at the same time, and they don't always have that much time to play... why in the world would we go do something like CoP? And yeah, for those people that don't have much time to play, they're going to be logging in every day for 3-4 hours just doing CoP and not doing anything else in the game, because it takes that much time to get through all that (and good luck if Japanese midnight happens).

[Afania]

I was deeply disturbed by your response.

I had to re-read your post multiple times, but did finally reach the conclusion that you were in fact talking about an online roleplaying game.

I think this opens a window for all of us as to why several here would mount opposition to a genuine call for help such a Crevox’s.

Clearly your sentiments above are a reflection of your own personal sacrifices you’ve made over the years to “enjoy” this game.

And selfishly, you can’t bear to see others reach their goals without incurring the same losses.

Allow me to state with as much sarcasm as can possibly be mustered:

Your version of the game sounds absolutely thrilling…

I'm not sure what's so "disturbed" about, every person have full control of their life, and choose what's important to them. Some value work over family, some value family over work. Some value accomplishment in a hobby(video game/making a film/owning a company). I have no issue with others trying to reach their goal, but I don't think the goal would value the same if the obstacles aren't the same.

Every choice you make, you make a sacrifice. If you choose to work overtime for more money and better position, you sacrifice your health and your family. Everyday when you make a choice to do "something", you always ended up sacrificing something else for it.

Do I sacrificed something for video games? I'd be lying if I say no, after all, it's thousands of hr in my life gone, spent on video games. But so do you, and everyone else who plays any video game title. Even if you spent only 30hr in your entire life on video game, it's still a sacrifice, just that the sacrifice is smaller.

[Afania]

I am not new to RPGs either, but it does not change anything, you find it silly, don't use it

! on the map is the same as wiki, but there's 1 key difference: One is guide in game, another one is outside help.

If the game provide a guide in game, majority of ppl would use it. In fact NPCs probably won't bother to provide much hint in dialogue because players would still know where to go via !.

If the game does not provide a guide in game, dev would have to provide more hint in the dialogue, and players refuse to "cheat" with a guide would not use it.

They're not exactly the same thing. I'd rather play a RPG with no ! on the map, and just use guide if I'm stuck, instead of finding a reason to skip all the NPC dialogue because ! exists.

I play the game as intended. If ! is provided in game I won't turn it off(I'm not a masochist), but if there are no ! I'd just start paying more attention to what NPC says.

IMO, it's better to be the other way around. The game shouldn't provide hand-holding hints in game, if players wants hand-holding just read wiki. If the game provides ! on the map, nobody want to turn it off PLUS dev won't design the game based assuming players turning it off too.

I mean, why do you want to design a map with clear object and have the galka NPC tell the player to head to that object if ! on the map exist? It's extra effort for nothing, you only ever need a !. Then the sense of adventure would be gone that way.

For ****s sake then turn it off! Why is that so hard to grasp!?

Because you can't. In a game with !, the game design is based on the fact that ! exists. The NPC and map design won't provide as much hint.

That simply depends on age. The majority of RPGs have adapted a marker system of some sort in modern gaming with only collectibles being left to find on your own in most cases, some games even mark those for you as well. Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Star Ocean, I could list off a ton of RPGs if I cared to put thought into it that all have a marker system for main objectives, side missions, items, or multiple other things. Also, games that are close worlded games such as most Final Fantasy games are, as well as older RPGs in general, those hardly had anywhere near the open world experience that FFXI has where we have hardly any guidance, by compare, the story in FFXI has hardly any pointers telling you where to go outside of vague reference. This is very unlike a game like FFX or FFXII, the predecessor and successor of this game in the same series, both of which were very straight forward in where you needed to go at all times, FFX was more linear than FFXI or FFXII, while FFXII had markers for Hunts, gave a reminder at the bottom of your map of where to go, and the characters in the CSs almost always mentioned a fairly accurate description of where to go to get where you needed to be.

So, let me sum this up by saying, you have a very narrow view of what a RPG is, or should be, and seem to ignore the majority of newer RPGs as well.

You're right that the game would change as the time progress, to fit majority's taste, That doesn't mean older games are inferior. Some of the older RPG actually require players to write down their objective and write their own game journey, instead of having the game automatically generate a journal.

My POV toward RPG is exactly like how it reads: Role playing game, to live another life in a virtual world. A game with a story/skill/level isn't necessary RPG to me. You're right it's a narrow POV, but everyone has different taste.

The point is, I picked this game because it fits my taste, why do you want to change the game so drasticaly to fit yours? I don't pick linear RPGs, but I don't yell on their forum and ask for a change too. I find ARR too linear and too instant gratification for my taste, do you ever see me yell on their forum and ask the dev to change ARR to FFXI?

I'm gonna be quite honest, I am not even going to bother formulating a proper response to this, I am going to be blunt.

Choice 1 is basically giving up on what could be a chance to live a decent life, though not what you necessarily want at the time, in order to fast track your way to getting what you want but at the same time suffer the risk of never getting it, and dying a pointless wasted life because you refused an offer you had that could have improved your life. Choice 2 is basically accepting an offer given, possibly improving your life, and not necessarily removing all options for completing your goals in the future. You're giving that, which is a real life example of someone I would consider a complete moron for picking 1, and comparing it to a person who deprives themselves of sleep, hygiene, food, or other real life things that are needed, so that they can complete something in a game. .

You have a pretty narrow POV toward life then. In your opinion, your value is the right value, everyone else's value different from yours are shit or moron.

Back before kickstarter exists, I do know someone irl sold every property he had(and broke as fuck) to make a film, that's where my example came from. There are also plenty of ppl start their own business by sacrificing everything they have that even their family left.

Are they idiot/stupid? I don't think so. They just value their goal more than having a happier life.


When it comes to goal in game, the sacrifice is less "legit". Goal in real life carries through entire life, and it's recognized entire life, and it benefits more people, goals in game can be gone after server shut down and only being recognized in same community, and it benefits less people.

That's the really the key difference between rl and game. But ultimately, it's about trying to do something that others choose not to do. I don't view it as negatively as you, in game or rl.

Since you view other ppl picking different path from you moron/idiot, I don't think you'd understand the entire concept anyways.

As for your friend's case, yes I don't know him, but my assumption is based on logic, and it can apply to everyone. He values something else more than FFXI goal, thus he isn't coming back, it's just logic. If you value work more than family, you'd work overtime, find someone else to pick up your kids when they're sick etc. And vice versa.

If he values something else(in your friend's case, work)more than goals in FFXI, there's just nothing you can do about it. Have 2hr a day isn't the real reason, FFXI is playable with 2hr a day of playtime. Making everything handed to him so he can catch up doesn't matter, he may ended up playing for 3 days and quit again. I keep telling everyone one day I'll go back to ARR too, I mean I want to go back, just feel unmotivated, simply because the game isn't interesting anymore. There isn't anything dev/other players can do about it.

Tbh, if he really want to play FFXI THAT much, he'd be back already. Or at least buy an account with better progress to catch up and come back.

[Demonjustin]

! on the map is the same as wiki, but there's 1 key difference: One is guide in game, another one is outside help.

If the game provide a guide in game, majority of ppl would use it. In fact NPCs probably won't bother to provide much hint in dialogue because players would still know where to go via !.

If the game does not provide a guide in game, dev would have to provide more hint in the dialogue, and players refuse to "cheat" with a guide would not use it.

They're not even the same thing. I'd rather play a RPG with no ! on the map, and just use guide if I'm stuck, instead of finding a reason to skip all the NPC dialogue because ! exists.

If the knowledge that there is a source of information that can provide you with the location of your goal is enough to sway people to using the wiki rather than not then wiki would be used. You are making it sound as though no choice is given which is not the case, you can access it, thus, you can use it. That is like saying that now that Trust exists all low-man content will be much harder to do, this is due to the fact now every player can equate to 4 when soloing and thus, low-man content will be assumed to always include at least 4 people, with at very least 1 player. This however is not the case, simply because SE would give us a Quest Log or Marker system does not instantly mean that quest dialog would not be meaningful, rather the opposite. They try to work the story into everything they do in this game for the most part which means for us to get this info and put it in our log, we would need to get the info first, this would come from the NPC Dialog.

It seems to me what you are saying in the long run is that people have no self control when presented with an in-game option to obtain this information via a Log or Markers, but when they have to use Wiki, they can prevent themselves from using it without an issue.

You're right that the game would change as the time progress, to fit majority's taste, That doesn't mean older games are inferior. Some of the older RPG actually require players to write down their objective and write their own game journey, instead of having the game automatically generate a journal.

My POV toward RPG is exactly like how it reads: Role playing game, to live another life in a virtual world. A game with a story/skill/level isn't necessary RPG to me. You're right it's a narrow POV, but everyone has different taste.

The point is, I picked this game because it fits my taste, why do you want to change the game so drasticaly to fit yours? I don't pick linear RPGs, but I don't yell on their forum and ask for a change too. I find ARR too linear and too instant gratification for my taste, do you ever see me yell on their forum and ask the dev to change ARR to FFXI?

You say I want to change it drastically, explain, what drastic change am I suggesting that you are unable to avoid in your playing of this game?

You have a pretty narrow POV toward life then. In your opinion, your value is the right value, everyone else's value different from yours are shit or moron.

Back before kickstarter campaign exists, I do know someone irl sold every property he had(and broke as fuck) to make a film. There are also plenty of ppl start their own business by sacrificing everything they have that even their family left.

Are they idiot/stupid? I don't think so. They just value their goal more than having a happier life.

You don't think so, I do. It also depends on situations. If the person you know who sold his property had enough money from doing so that they could get by until the time of which they completed the movie, that is one thing, but if they are literally losing everything they have by selling it so they can try to make a movie and end up literally living on the street due to that choice until they finish it, then they are an idiot. I do not think my value is superior, I think logically no one can make that choice and be a smart person, it is simply not a good choice to gamble with your life and that is basically what you are doing in such a situation, gambling with your life that you will succeed in your goal after having given everything up, if you fail, you have nothing, if you succeed, you have your dream, but its still a gamble. As I said before as well the reason why you are an idiot for picking that option is because if you stuck with what you have you can still achieve your goals, just not as quickly.

But, I will be honest, this is a video game forum, a general section forum for that video game. This is hardly the place to debate my real life philosophies and principles on which I choose to judge actions people take.

When it comes to goal in game, the sacrifice is less "legit". Goal in real life carries through entire life, and it's recognized entire life, and it benefits more people, goals in game can be gone after server shut down and only being recognized in same community, and it benefits less people.

That's the really the key difference between rl and game. But ultimately, it's about trying to do something that others choose not to do. I don't view it as negatively as you, in game or rl.

Since you view other ppl picking different path from you moron/idiot, I don't think you'd understand the entire concept anyways.

I understand the concept, I mean, as I said earlier this thread I want to go into game design, I am a big fan of SE because they have inspired me through their games in a way nothing else has, and it has come to the point I see video games as the current perfect form of art. I explain that because I very much want to make games, at the same time, I can not in any way see the idea of selling everything I have and focusing on that goal a good idea. It is an idea with good intentions, but it is not a good idea, and it is not a good action to take it, to take it would be stupid in my opinion due to the fact that by doing so I am basically rushing to achieve my end goal by doing it now, rather than waiting till later in my life when the goal may be more easily realized or I may have better access to that of which I need in order to achieve what I want.

Allow me to use a poor in-game example of what I am trying to get across.

If someone right now needs Tojil's KI so that they can go buy their items from him, they have Plasm, just need the KI so they can get that gear they really want, and right now they have only 5 friends willing to help them, can get no one to join from shouts, and little gil. Now, they can do 1 of 2 things, either try desperately to low-man it, giving up their gil and possibly even selling some of their gear to buy some Beads the item to make the KI they need to enter the fight, all in hopes that they win that run. The second choice is that they wait, hold onto their items, and be patient, farming gil and improving where they can for now without that gear as well as practicing on outside NMs, then, after the update coming this month, they can do the 6-man version of Delve with their friends and try to get their win that way. Path A presents a chance at victory, but a rushing and foolhardy choice that if failed, could set them back even further than if they had just waited to achieve their goal. Path be present a more slow and steady choice which can pay off in the long run, and in the end will not take nearly as much away from them if they fail.

To me, I see A as foolish, and B as a more intelligent answer. That is my opinion, and I can make my own judgements on these actions, that is my choice. By making such a judgement though I am not saying my opinion is better than anyone else's, I am stating how I see these things, and in all honesty, I think most people would agree that B is the better of the two, while A is not, because in reality its more of a 'slow and steady wins the race' mentality, which is often actually the better of the two in things, though admittedly not always, many variables can change that and make A clearly better.

As for your friend's case, yes I don't know him, but my assumption is based on logic, and it can apply to everyone.

I agree, now I am going to skip ahead a bit, please forgive me.

If he values something else(in your friend's case, work)more than goals in FFXI, there's just nothing you can do about it. Have 2hr a day isn't the real reason, FFXI is playable with 2hr a day of playtime.

Now, I skipped to this because these is where I am going to end this post, replying to this right here.

You say 2 hours a day isn't the real reason, and this game is playable with 2 hours of playtime a day. This is true, but, ask yourself how true it is for someone who is behind rather than on par with the game. You and I may be able to make progress in 2 hours, sure, but I have a Relic and an Empyrean and am working on a Mythic, you a Mythic, we both have done Endgame events such as Delve quite a bit, we both have well geared jobs, we both have been playing a long time, and we both have been basically caught up to content for some time as well. In 2 hours, we can easily find people we need to do something or find something to do because we know people, we know the game, and we know what needs to be done. All of these things are vastly different than what he would face if he returned.

To explain the state of his character would be difficult but I will do my best real quick. He had 3 level 75s, SAM, MNK, and DRG, he also had somewhat decent gear for those jobs at their level, his BLU is at around 50 but he loved the job and never got his AF due to the whole Staging Point thing which he could never finish due to Imps. He had done rank missions up to rank 5, never getting rank 6 due to lack of interest in Dynamis, he had no CoP progress or any other expansion progress really, he has probably around 500k last I knew, he never broke a mil and sold a lot of stuff before he left the game last time. I bring all this up because it is a lot of things he would be expected to do in the game today. If he came back and tried to gear up his BLU, which is the job he said he would most likely level upon his return if he returned in the future, he would need to finish CoP for Rajas, RotZ for Suppanomimi, and get a few other standard pieces of gear such as things from Bayld or Sparks.

There would be a ton of work to do in order to get to where most players are at, and you are talking about 2 hours a day to do all of this. Can you blame someone for not wanting to spend 2 hours of their day when they are off just so they can attempt to catch up on a game? Just because he doesn't isn't a sign he doesn't want to play, but rather it can also be a sign that he just doesn't want to have to spend his time off trying to catch up with people so that he can play the game with people again.

[OKOA]

You say 2 hours a day isn't the real reason, and this game is playable with 2 hours of playtime a day. This is true, but, ask yourself how true it is for someone who is behind rather than on par with the game. You and I may be able to make progress in 2 hours, sure, but I have a Relic and an Empyrean and am working on a Mythic, you a Mythic, we both have done Endgame events such as Delve quite a bit, we both have well geared jobs, we both have been playing a long time, and we both have been basically caught up to content for some time as well. In 2 hours, we can easily find people we need to do something or find something to do because we know people, we know the game, and we know what needs to be done. All of these things are vastly different than what he would face if he returned.

To explain the state of his character would be difficult but I will do my best real quick. He had 3 level 75s, SAM, MNK, and DRG, he also had somewhat decent gear for those jobs at their level, his BLU is at around 50 but he loved the job and never got his AF due to the whole Staging Point thing which he could never finish due to Imps. He had done rank missions up to rank 5, never getting rank 6 due to lack of interest in Dynamis, he had no CoP progress or any other expansion progress really, he has probably around 500k last I knew, he never broke a mil and sold a lot of stuff before he left the game last time. I bring all this up because it is a lot of things he would be expected to do in the game today. If he came back and tried to gear up his BLU, which is the job he said he would most likely level upon his return if he returned in the future, he would need to finish CoP for Rajas, RotZ for Suppanomimi, and get a few other standard pieces of gear such as things from Bayld or Sparks.

There would be a ton of work to do in order to get to where most players are at, and you are talking about 2 hours a day to do all of this. Can you blame someone for not wanting to spend 2 hours of their day when they are off just so they can attempt to catch up on a game? Just because he doesn't isn't a sign he doesn't want to play, but rather it can also be a sign that he just doesn't want to have to spend his time off trying to catch up with people so that he can play the game with people again.

Correct.

He would spend 2 hours on his first day trying to learn 1 stubborn BLU spell. Only 50 more to go.

Try to group without them? Sorry, you don't have the right procs.

He'd be better off just bandwagoning monk if he wanted to even experience the content.

Then you get into the whole paradox Crevox is facing, you're punished for trying to pick and play a job you like.

As the saying goes:

Damned if you do, Damned in you don't