I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Afania]

Meanwhile, they will be asked to endure all of this under the derision of players like Afania.

Also I'm not sure why I'm suddenly the synonyms of terrible group of player unwilling to change and bash against every noob. Only opinion I ever disagree in entire discussion is killing the long term goal(which doesn't affect new players at all) and pop-up window + !(which doesn't exist in every RPG title, it's not needed in RPG games). Rest are against flaws and holes in opinion that's irrelevant to the topic too.

City of Heroes (R.I.P.) is not a good example. It was a profitable game, but the parent company (NCSoft) owns tons and tons of free-to-play MMOs, and compared to some other properties, the numbers weren't that impressive. Let's clarify that: it was making money, but not ridiculous amounts of money.

Compare that to Square-Enix, which only maintains three MMOs; one of which is brand new (and really expensive, though doing well), and another is a Wii exclusive. Square-Enix has said for ages - even after the big population drops - that FFXI was one of their most profitable investments, and even if the overall population drops further, they still have a lot of room to downsize resources. Everyone forgets that we Anglophones are really just squatters on what's essentially a Japanese game with lots of Japanese players.

The "implementing [unnamed feature] will increase subscription numbers and bring people back to the game" reminds me a lot of when corporate lobbyists conclude a merger proposal or response to a bill with "...will create jobs and encourage innovation" even when common sense says it won't.

SE had Fantasy Earth Zero too, it's more than 3 MMO excluding mobile titles.

[Renaissance2K]

SE had Fantasy Earth Zero too, it's more than 3 MMO excluding mobile titles.

"had" being the operative word there.

[Bukota]

Also I'm not sure why I'm suddenly the synonyms of terrible group of player unwilling to change and bash against every noob. Only opinion I ever disagree in entire discussion is killing the long term goal(which doesn't affect new players at all) and pop-up window + !(which doesn't exist in every RPG title, it's not needed in RPG games). Rest are against flaws and holes in opinion that's irrelevant to the topic too.

I apologize for singling you out. Having re-read your posts, at least you chose the high road versus some of the more cruel comments like "go play WoW" that seem to be cropping up in these threads.

And while I totally agree that you have the right to come here and voice your opinion, I think the context of this discussion has become far too focused on specific "solutions" that really don't solve the core problem.

If I may elaborate:

I'm asking the question "what would it take for me to approach my old friends who quit and ask them to re-join without laughing in my face?"

Well...

Travel times have always been a problem for most friends who quit. The few times we could both get on to play together would be absorbed by the meaningless minutae of getting to the same place at the same time with the right jobs.

Home point warps are an example of something the dev team has implemented to show that they empathize with this concern.

But this is merely an example.

It is one solution to a myriad of problems.

There are still overarching issues with the design of the game.

Let me give you one example. "New", "Fun", AND "Rewarding" content is added on a regular basis currently. But it is all designed for level 99 players in iLvL gear.

I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but consider these hypothetical friends I want to invite to the game.

They hear about some of this great content like what a Wildkeeper Reive is and can't wait to try it.

There's just one problem.

They need to do LB 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9; build fame for various quests; max gobbie bag to carry gear; level up to 99 along this process; simultaneously advance through missions to meet various requirements; unlock all sorts of access through wild means; level things up such as automatons and skills...

Ahhh just eff it...I'm not interested in coming back.

A lot of those things are just part of the game and need to be accepted, don't get me wrong. Skilling up has always been a core component of the game, and should continue to be. The same goes for automaton skills and the like.

But adding a key item to resolve needing 3 people to open a door in Garliage, and failing to do the same for the Necropolis is just one of many examples where the dev team for this game just don't get it.

See the bug report I posted yesterday for another example.

You admit in version update notes that you know a simple animation is broken and needs to be fixed, and then you just never do anything about it.

Now

If you don't believe SE is partially attuned to these facts, hmmm...

I mean Trust and RoE are perfect examples of them generating new content that scales well across a multitude of levels.

Moblin Maze Mongers was never a terribly popular event, and had flaws due to congestion, but it was a GREAT event in terms of scalability. With MMM and level sync, I could have my level 30 friend who rejoined the game play with my existing level 75 party.

In that regard it was a huge success. But more importantly proves my point that it is very possible to develop content that encourages cooperation between the many different strata of players in this game.

But it requires those 3 magical components: "Novelty", "Fun", and "Rewards."

So no, I'm not saying that I think adding map markers or reducing bloodpact timers will solve my major grievances.

But the measurably declining server populations should be a wake up call for everyone that the ship needs to be righted.

[Afania]

I apologize for singling you out. Having re-read your posts, at least you chose the high road versus some of the more cruel comments like "go play WoW" that seem to be cropping up in these threads.

"Go play WoW" isn't exactly wrong though, no game can please everyone, and not every direction change can please everyone either. If some players are unwilling to do all the LB/bag quests or long walk to another city, what else you gonna do? Get rid of all those requirement? When I was new I enjoyed all the hardwork to get fame/bag/LB quests done, getting lost in the dungeons or long walk to another city, it's a lot of work, but also feel like living in another world instead of kill easy quest mobs in a small game world and reach max lv. I'd feel sad if new player won't be able to experience such aspect again, I mean I'd be sad if I can't experience all those as a new player starting in 2010 or after. I don't even think this game would be that appealing if you have to skip every newb process and jump straight to the endgame.

Just because some player may want to jump straight to the endgame, doesn't mean everyone want the same way. I started EQ fairly recently, and I was kinda sad that I can no longer experience how EQ originally was.

Who can determine what's right game direction, who can determine what's wrong? Sub number? Player's happiness? And who has right to claim their happiness is the right direction?

There are specific aspects I truely enjoy in FFXI, I don't want to see it go away, not just for my own taste, but maybe out there there's someone else also enjoy the same thing, wanting to start FFXI as a new player, looking for same experience I had that no longer exists. If another player wants to play WoW, which is the better solution? Turn FFXI into WoW to please them, or tell them to play WoW so FFXI can stay FFXI, and potential new players that want to play real FFXI can still get a chance?

As I said before, changes are fine, as long as FFXI is still FFXI, that doesn't mean every changes are necessary good decision. And that doesn't make whoever defending for FFXI direction are stubborn/hating new players/elitist/wanting others to suffer either.

I know the player base gets smaller, I don't think any MMORPG can keep player forever, I'm not denying the change. But there are something that's unique to FFXI that I loved, that I'll continue to defend for it. If someone else doesn't like FFXI being FFXI, besides "go to WoW", what else do you want me to say?

I don't want others to "suffer" when they play a game, if they feel like they're "suffering" for fame/LB/quests/gobbie bag/walk, my suggestion is to go away. However, if dev turn FFXI into something else by removing everything, those who enjoy doing hard work in another world won't have many choice left on the market. Now that's real suffering for those wanted hardcore gameplay. Like how I was sad that I no longer get to enjoy real EQ.

[Bukota]

"

I know the player base gets smaller, I don't think any MMORPG can keep player forever, I'm not denying the change. But there are something that's unique to FFXI that I loved, that I'll continue to defend for it. If someone else doesn't like FFXI being FFXI, besides "go to WoW", what else do you want me to say?

I'm curious what you'd say to someone who came FROM WoW to try "your" game.

Here is a game that came out within a year of FFXI.

Examine the graph closely:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...2LHxJL0cCw5ukw

The reason why the game continues to add players year after year is a topic too exhaustive for this discussion.

Suffice it to say, the graphics engine has been redone on two separate occassions.

In the mean time, FFXI got "Playstation Limitations."

Brilliant.

[Afania]

I'm curious what you'd say to someone who came FROM WoW to try "your" game.

Here is a game that came out within a year of FFXI.

Examine the graph closely:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...2LHxJL0cCw5ukw

The reason why the game continues to add players year after year is a topic too exhaustive for this discussion.

Suffice it to say, the graphics engine has been redone on two separate occassions.

In the mean time, FFXI got "Playstation Limitations."

Brilliant.

The reason why EVE online can retain players, is because EVE online is sandbox MMORPG, and there aren't enough sandbox RPG competition on the market. Also by nature, sandbox gameplay are not just "beat the content then quit" kind of game. Showing a graph of a sandbox MMO doesn't really show anything, because FFXI is themepark and it's not even same genre.


Theme park has bigger market, but every title are competing against one million F2P titles coming out every year, hundred and hundred of asian titles pop every year too. Pretty much any new theme park MMO can't retain sub because they're competing against one million other titles AND by the nature of gameplay, players would play through their content and quit.

FFXI is just like any theme park MMO, but with different flavor. It's directly competing against games like WoW/FFXIV, there isn't much you can do if the sub numbers drop.

[Bukota]

The reason why EVE online can retain players, is because EVE online is sandbox MMORPG, and there aren't enough sandbox RPG competition on the market. Also by nature, sandbox gameplay are not just "beat the content then quit" kind of game. Showing a graph of a sandbox MMO doesn't really show anything, because FFXI is themepark and it's not even same genre.


Theme park has bigger market, but every title are competiting against one million F2P titles coming out every year, hundred and hundred of asian titles pop every year too. Pretty much any new theme park MMO can't retain sub because they're competiting against one million other titles AND by the nature of gameplay, players would play through their content and quit.

FFXI is just like any theme park MMO, but with different flavor. It's directly competing against games like WoW/FFXIV, there isn't much you can do if the sub numbers drop.

It's really much more simple than you're making it.

They have a professional, highly skilled, and steadfast development team that keeps the game updated.

They do so by heavily interacting with the community on important decisions. See Council of Stellar Management for how that is properly done.

[Bukota]

It's really much more simple than you're making it.

They have a professional, highly skilled, and steadfast development team that keeps the game updated.

They do so by heavily interacting with the community on important decisions. See Council of Stellar Management for how that is properly done.

They've also never let fear of change get in the way of making their game better.

It has taken courage in the past, and they've made mistakes. But the effort is what counts when you are selling the relationship of service provider, which is what MMOs are really about.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Suffice it to say, the graphics engine has been redone on two separate occassions.

In the mean time, FFXI got "Playstation Limitations."

I imagine an engine overhaul would be their next long-term project when (read "if") they ever finish the new PC UI.

[Bukota]

I imagine an engine overhaul would be their next long-term project when (read "if") they ever finish the new PC UI.

They would need evidence that their current efforts and investment could really produce a meaningful uptick in subscribership.

It would be so much easier to just slowly fade into obscurity.

It is at least refreshing to see that Matsui appears determined to do anything but that.

It'd be nice to be a fly on the wall.