I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Zeargi]

Yes because its an MMO. In any other MMO, you can't have 6/6 healers in one group to fight bosses and dungeons, SOME of them have to compromise and go other jobs. The same is said for this game, SMN can be fit into any end-game scenario reliably but it won't be the best. You would have to play a different job if you want to "rush" into endgame like the OP wants to.

Personally, SMN is a strong DD/Support class, the problem is that SMN's abilities on the support side don't scale the way they should. I've played SMN since the the moment I could, and did I get invites, no really, because people saw SMN as a Gimped healer. There are lots of things holding SMN back from the true potential it could have, one of which is the player base. It falls into the same field as PUP, most people that don't play the job, don't understand how useful and devastating it can be.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

meaning now that there is a official window mode and can look up the information. S.E has fixed that issue.

Expecting paying subscribers to use verboten tools to parse, datmine and otherwise divine out information that is effectively designed to be a trade secret between the game publisher and the guide publisher is hardly a "fix."

[OKOA]

You completely missed the point of the counterargument.

Let me try to explain how I took it at very least, maybe then you will understand it as I do.

A new player joined the game, they leveled to 30, unlocked SMN, and then did all of the work involved in getting SMN the things it needs, all the Avatars, some decent perp gear, the Ring, all that. Now, after putting this work in, the player can not play their job in a party in the content they wish to do, why? Simple, SMN is not useful, they picked the 'wrong job' to level, a 'mistake' they made when they chose SMN because they did not level something like the aforementioned suggestion of BRD or COR, jobs which are seen as useful whereas SMN is not. You picked jobs like WHM, DRK, COR, GEO, and SCH, so congratulations, you get an internet cookie, you picked jobs people will invite and accept in their party.

The thing is, not everyone wants to play a large range of jobs, get stuck on jobs they don't like or don't want to play primarily, or they simply do not like many jobs. I personally am an example of this kind of person to some extent. I like WAR, MNK, WHM, and SCH, I refuse to play any of these jobs at this point however. My favorite job in Final Fantasy as a whole, including FFXI, is RDM, always has been, always will be. The fact of the matter is that RDM is not all to useful, hasn't been for quite some time, before I started to really even play past XP parties, so most of the time I have no ability to play my job. The fact that I did like WAR, MNK, WHM, and SCH, meant that people almost always told me to play those jobs, and my play time on RDM was so minor that for a full year I never actually joined a party for anything meaningful whatsoever on my main job. Nowadays I purposely allowed my other jobs to fall so far behind that I will never bring them back up to the point of use again, I enjoy them, but I will not play them because I want to play RDM, and if I have them as options, RDM no longer becomes one.

The point I am trying to make with that, is that by playing other jobs which I do like, I can not play the one which I enjoy the most as no one will let me. If you do that with a new player it will be no different, in fact, it will be worse, because unlike me, a person who has a well established RDM and actually has a rep to some extent on my server for being a RDM, a new player would have no real stand out gear. A new player such as Crevox, who wants to play SMN, would be stuck on their WHM, BRD, or COR for everything without a second thought most likely, and after they have a rep for playing those jobs what are the chances they will break that rhythm and be allowed to play their SMN?



Right here, Draylo was basically saying that Crevox messed up by choosing to play SMN, he made the mistake of picking a job he thought he would like even though he said himself he came in knowing full well that SMN was not all to great and useful in parties. Are you telling me that in order to play this game and even try to enjoy events with other players that a person should level only jobs of use and not even expect to play the jobs they think they will enjoy?

It is hilarious how delusional the responses in this thread are getting to simple logical arguments that people like Demonjustin are presenting.

It seems the majority of the forum-dwellers really have their head crammed down deep into the sand.

It's simple really:

1) Guy or Gal grows up playing FF games. Decides to re-play FFVII and FFVIII

2) Gets all nostalgic watching the summons, and thinks "Hmmm, FFXI, the one that got away" ... maybe I'll try it.

3) Boots up, levels to 30, unlocks summoner, and things are going swimmingly.

4) Gets all the practical summons he/she can given limited playtime.

5) Feels great and powerful smashing worms in Aby to 99.

6) Finally, time to put these summons to the test!

7) Told to level WHM COR or BRD if he/she actually wants to party, otherwise GTFO and play WoW

There are endless variations to this theme.

Prior to this it was "ALEXANDER or GTFO."

In Aby when I would show up to linkshell fights I would get scalded for trying to send an avatar to actually fight the mob.

"Buff-bot or GTFO."

Is it really so hard to see that such a pale glimpse of what it means to be a summoner in other FF games would be a hugely dissappointing turnoff?

Or is the goal here to just rub salt in the wound?

Yes because its an MMO. In any other MMO, you can't have 6/6 healers in one group to fight bosses and dungeons, SOME of them have to compromise and go other jobs.

It's an MMO from the early 2000s, which might make this statement true. But it is not unequivocably true, not even close. For starters, it uses (or used, depending on how fixable you regard enmity) the "holy trinity" as mechanism for balancing combat roles.

There are tons of games on the market right now that no longer balance battles around such a system. Notably, in Guild Wars 2 a party of 6/6 "healers" (Guardian, only class with true healing spells) would be capable of beating most dungeons.

I also belonged to an all BST linkshell on Asura called LuckyCharms and we frequently did events as all BST. Successfully I might add. So your argument that balance MUST be enforced doesn't really even hold water in FFXI.

Point blank, forcing people to play specific jobs in order to advance in the game is, was, and always has been shoddy design.

The only time it works is when the job you really want to play happens to be the darling at any given time.

With 22 jobs, those are some bad odds.

[bungiefanNA]

meaning now that there is a official window mode and can look up the information. S.E has fixed that issue.

btw they still make brady/prima guides? between the internet and well lolbrady guides i think they would of went out of business by now. i guess have an actually publication would be nice for nostalgia if quality. well always cool reading about your games, as some guides were nicely written and detailed.

as afania said. it can be improved in dialogue. however, any thing more than that is the player lacking any sense of adventure.

In Japan, they have published annual Ultimania guides for this game. They put out Ultimania guides for all the FF games, and they detail a lot of obscure things about the games.

http://kotaku.com/13-years-later-a-n...en-d-510041775

Final Fantasy IX, that quest was known to the Japanese, but until someone translated that bit into English, it wasn't known in English-speaking countries. FFXI Ultimanias specify the details of hidden and latent effects on items that are otherwise unknown to the players. Brady could have kept doing guides, but what SE does puts them to shame, and the sales weren't pleasing to Brady apparently.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

No indication from the game, really?
Try hit "/? shout", or "/? yell".

/yell is filtered by default, as I recall. You'd have to know they exist first, at the very least, let alone know that it is the only realistic way of assembling groups now. The party flag that official S-E materials point you to is completely useless now in any event.

[Damane]

Personally, SMN is a strong DD/Support class, the problem is that SMN's abilities on the support side don't scale the way they should. I've played SMN since the the moment I could, and did I get invites, no really, because people saw SMN as a Gimped healer. There are lots of things holding SMN back from the true potential it could have, one of which is the player base. It falls into the same field as PUP, most people that don't play the job, don't understand how useful and devastating it can be.

actually the only thing summoner has going for it is hate free damage and Eearthen Armor atm. It has catched up a bit, but its still miles away, which is understandable due to the hatefree damage. The only way you could see SMN ramp out massiv Damage like Melees or nukers is if SE would make the SMN share hate with its avatar and then buff their damage massivly, which is never going to happen.

Now Avatars Favour would be a decent ability as a support class if the range of it was way bigger and it would start at max potency.

[Camiie]

Nope, I enjoyed White Mage, I enjoyed Blue Mage, I enjoyed Dark Knight, I enjoyed Paladin, I enjoyed Corsair, I enjoyed PUP, I enjoyed Geomancer, I enjoyed Dancer and I enjoyed Scholar. Did I make a mistake?

The OP started the game fresh and likely chose a job based solely on personal appeal and fun factor, just as many of us probably did when we first started the game, rather than choosing one based on endgame favorablity. I used mistake in a satirical sense as he really hasn't done anything wrong. Maybe I should have spelled it out more clearly so you in particular could understand. Everyone else seemed to get it, after all.

To be honest though, I really should have predicted you'd find my posts in this thread and launch into another one of your "SE can do no wrong" tirades directed against me personally. It's beyond creepy how you always seem to do that here and on other forums, but hey whatever.

Like the posts on other forums, they exist to constantly remind people how bad the game they play is and won't quit.

My purpose is to get SE to take care of what I see as flaws so my experience improves. If all everyone did was come here and blow sunshine up their <Rear> then we'd still have the exact same game with all the same problems we had in 2002. Maybe I should say, "If you want a game stuck in the past decade, why don't you quit and play Everquest?" But you know I don't think that way

They'll also continually try to tell you you're wrong for enjoying this game or if you find anything good about it. However they keep paying SE to do so, so don't even worry about it.

I guess you're talking about someone else, because I have never done this.

[Aezelas]

/yell is filtered by default, as I recall. You'd have to know they exist first, at the very least, let alone know that it is the only realistic way of assembling groups now. The party flag that official S-E materials point you to is completely useless now in any event.

True, and i was simply pointing out that saying there's no information anywhere in game is wrong.
Anyway, you can also type "/?" and have a nice list of every command you have access to, and try every single one when you're bored enough.
Maybe it should look differently, but having everything explained in game wouldn't help if you have no clue what you're looking for in the first place.
And even if you do, it would be no different than browsing a wiki, since the game has 11 years worth of content.

Asking for in game deep explanations about "lights/fluxes/keys/seals/crests/bayld/conquest/assault points/ancient beastcoins/sparks/imperial standing/tokens/allied notes/kinetics/plasm/resistance credits/cruor/dominion notes/battle trophies/traverser stones/voidstones/etc" for the least, without bothering asking people advice is what i think is unreasonnable, considering you're getting accurate information from other sources.
Aren't players interaction and experience sharing part of a MMO anyway?

There are great beginners guides out there, and some are up to date.
For more information, i'm still thinking other players experience is the way to go.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Anyway, you can also type "/?" and have a nice list of every command you have access to, and try every single one when you're bored enough.

Or I can type "help" in my operating system's command prompt and get the same level of entertainment without paying $12.95/mo

There are great beginners guides out there, and some are up to date.

"Damning with faint praise."

[Raydeus]

How do you get to lvl 50 without getting used to being butchered by some random mob anyway? o_O;


PS >
Speaking of that, one of the things I miss the most were the random trains in places like G. Citadel and Yuhtunga Jungle. They could be annoying at times, but they were also part of what made XI, XI back then.

"Train going to zone!" "Run away!" "What are all you guys doing out here? o_O I'm going in! <30 seconds later> /tell Hey, can I get a Raise?"