For those of us who still support the PS2 version of FFXI

[cidbahamut]

when people say having a PC is not an option for me its just crazy. its 2011 !

PCs?
In my 21st century?

[Volkai]

Their inability to get with the times, is preventing future content, which I expect as a paying customer. If they can't upgrade because they can't afford to, then they need to get their priorities fixed, because as you said, they're paying customers. They also are not a significant portion of the player base just because you happen to be among them.

What makes you think I happen to be among them?

As for the years of updates without ditching the ps2, you clearly completely missed the point. Those updates you speak of what I was equating your example of Windows Vista being able to be run on older systems. We are so far beyond that point, that we cannot go further unless the original machine (the ps2) is dropped.

Your comparison here is faulty. FFXI's updates are not the same as going from Windows 9 to Vista, as I've already explained.

As for the topic of convincing them to upgrade, it's been gone over, many times, with many simple and cheap solutions. This merely adds to the fact that we're being held back pointlessly by stubborn individuals, such as yourself.

Not such as myself, actually. Additionally, I challenge the assertion that such options are actually cheap. Cheap is a relative term, after all, and what's cheap to a person making US$50,000 a year is likely to be quite expensive by the standards of someone earning minimum wage - or less.

Don't like it? Fine, but because of you, the money I put in, has no chance of extending gameplay in the future. In essence, that means the money I'm paying each month is now devalued yet maintaining it's price.

And again with the assumptions:
1) You're assuming that there's no chance of extending gameplay without dropping PS2, which is unproven. The fact that there are still updates planned means this assumption is wrong.
2) You seem to think I play on PS2. This is also wrong. I moved from PS2 to PC some four years ago now. But I was playing on PS2 for some four years before I made the switch, and I understand why others might not.
3) You seem to think that very few people play on PS2. You're mistaken.
Michael's Site has a comparison graphic ( http://www.finalfantasy7110.com/etc/...ni/img2/06.gif ) based on both their 2009 survey ( http://www.finalfantasy7110.com/etc/...8mini/02sp.htm ), and JPButton's 2009 survey ( http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3085 ) which shows that at least as of early 2009, some 3% of both JP and NA/EU populations play on PS3 (using PS2 emulation) while 6% of NA and some 29% of JP populations play on PS2. That's a combined 9% and 32% and averaging them together (weighted slightly in favor of JP) you get a result of approximately 20% or one in five FFXI players using the PS2 version of the game.

20% is not a portion of a player base you can leave behind.



Oh, and before I forget:
4) I doubt you truly feel the money you pay for FFXI has devalued past the point of what FFXI is worth paying for. You're still paying for it, aren't you?

[Volkai]

Yay for reading comprehension. </sarcasm>
I meant why do people keep assuming that there are people out there who play on PS2 but somehow do not possess a PC capable of running FFXI?

Because people keep assuming that someone who has a PC or XBox 360 that is capable of running FFXI, as well as a PS2 capable of running FFXI, couldn't possibly still be playing FFXI on their PS2.

Therefore, the logic goes, anyone who plays FFXI on PS2 must neither have a computer nor an XBox 360.

[Volkai]

you can buy a decent PC and play the game wit no issues.
would not cost you an arm and a leg for a barebone kit
like this one
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...3320&CatId=333

start saving some money sell some crap get a job buy a pc
when people say having a PC is not an option for me its just crazy. its 2011 !

That's $350 after rebate, before shipping.

I already showed in a previous post how you can get FFXI running on PS2 for about two hundred dollars less than that. Additionally, your package does not include a monitor, keyboard, mouse, Operating System, FFXI, or the cost of registering add-ons.

Not to mention the question of knowing how to assemble a computer from parts.

[cidbahamut]

Because people keep assuming that someone who has a PC or XBox 360 that is capable of running FFXI, as well as a PS2 capable of running FFXI, couldn't possibly still be playing FFXI on their PS2.

So the reason for clinging to the PS2 is simply because you're stubborn for the sake of being stubborn?

[Volkai]

Why do people keep assuming there is a need to purchase a new PC when making the jump from PS2?

Because according to alot of players the PS2 has limitations and if the PS2 system was taken out of the equation then FF11 could be improved ... but I don't really care anymore square-enix is stubborn like a young teenager they most likely will leave things as is.

Yay for reading comprehension. </sarcasm>
I meant why do people keep assuming that there are people out there who play on PS2 but somehow do not possess a PC capable of running FFXI?

Because people keep assuming that someone who has a PC or XBox 360 that is capable of running FFXI, as well as a PS2 capable of running FFXI, couldn't possibly still be playing FFXI on their PS2.

Therefore, the logic goes, anyone who plays FFXI on PS2 must neither have a computer nor an XBox 360.

So the reason for clinging to the PS2 is simply because you're stubborn for the sake of being stubborn?

. . . What? Why would you ask me that? You're not making any sense in the least. Here, I've re-added all of the nested quotes so that you have context for what's being said. Maybe now you can construct a coherent addition to the conversation instead of some random "so you're being stubborn (which is stupid)" ad-hominem.

[Zyeriis]

What makes you think I happen to be among them?

Your comparison here is faulty. FFXI's updates are not the same as going from Windows 9 to Vista, as I've already explained.

Not such as myself, actually. Additionally, I challenge the assertion that such options are actually cheap. Cheap is a relative term, after all, and what's cheap to a person making US$50,000 a year is likely to be quite expensive by the standards of someone earning minimum wage - or less.

And again with the assumptions:
1) You're assuming that there's no chance of extending gameplay without dropping PS2, which is unproven. The fact that there are still updates planned means this assumption is wrong.
2) You seem to think I play on PS2. This is also wrong. I moved from PS2 to PC some four years ago now. But I was playing on PS2 for some four years before I made the switch, and I understand why others might not.
3) You seem to think that very few people play on PS2. You're mistaken.
Michael's Site has a comparison graphic ( http://www.finalfantasy7110.com/etc/...ni/img2/06.gif ) based on both their 2009 survey ( http://www.finalfantasy7110.com/etc/...8mini/02sp.htm ), and JPButton's 2009 survey ( http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=3085 ) which shows that at least as of early 2009, some 3% of both JP and NA/EU populations play on PS3 (using PS2 emulation) while 6% of NA and some 29% of JP populations play on PS2. That's a combined 9% and 32% and averaging them together (weighted slightly in favor of JP) you get a result of approximately 20% or one in five FFXI players using the PS2 version of the game.

20% is not a portion of a player base you can leave behind.



Oh, and before I forget:
4) I doubt you truly feel the money you pay for FFXI has devalued past the point of what FFXI is worth paying for. You're still paying for it, aren't you?

Some one is clearly speaking out from experiences 2-4 years ago. You're bringing stats out? Terrific, ones from 2 years ago even, which is 1 year after WotG came out. (instance #1 of the ps2 holding us back)

Proof that the ps2 is causing us to be held back:
1) Wings of the Goddess (recycling of textures and areas)
2) The first 3 Add-ons instead of expansion packs (Doesn't add any new areas)
3) Abbysea (another recycling of textures and areas)
4) No true expansion packs being announced since WotG

As for "explaining" that it's not the same:
1) No you didn't
2) No, it's not, it's called an analogy. Go put Vista (or Windows 7) on one of the first comps to be able to use 95, without upgrading it in any way. That's like (i repeat) trying to put new content on the ps2 right now. I am fully aware of the difference between that and trying to do that with a windows 9 computer. I am merely stepping up the extremity of the example/analogy so that you will get it this time (which I doubt)

@ your #4: In the hopes that they'll drop the ps2 (like they very well should because there is absolutely no reason to continue support aside from pure stubborness) and give us new content. Until such a time, the price has devalued.

Updates/Tweaks to the game in its current state is not an expansion or extension of gameplay neither are the abbysea zones, they are merely rewrites.

As for not playing on the ps2, then you have even less reason to defend it's support, less you be trollin. Which I am seriously beginning to believe is the fact of the matter.

As for people who have a 360/PC capable of running FFXI still playing on ps2. The "assumption" that they aren't is a logical process of not using something horribly out of date. Dropping ps2 support won't affect such people. If there are still people who only have the ps2 after that, I simply don't care nor should I when that extremely small minority is only holding the rest of us back. Another fact regarding this matter: their ps2s aren't going to hold out much longer. Sure they can go dump money into another "used" ps2 (that also probably won't last much longer) but they could most likely get a PC (or even a laptop/netbook) that can flawlessly run ffxi (even better to boot) for equal to or less than that price.

[cidbahamut]

Regurgitating a quote pyramid adds nothing to this discussion and you know it.

You appear to be on the PS2 side of the fence as it were, so please explain to me why folks are inclined to rabidly defend the PS2.

[Volkai]

Some one is clearly speaking out from experiences 2-4 years ago. You're bringing stats out?

If you have updated survey data, bring it forth!

2) No, it's not, it's called an analogy. Go put Vista (or Windows 7) on one of the first comps to be able to use 95, without upgrading it in any way. That's like (i repeat) trying to put new content on the ps2 right now. I am fully aware of the difference between that and trying to do that with a windows 9 computer. I am merely stepping up the extremity of the example/analogy so that you will get it this time (which I doubt)

I repeat: your analogy is flawed. Trying to put Vista on one of the first comps to be able to use 95 is like trying to put Final Fantasy XIV (14) on one of the first comps to be able to run Final Fantasy XI (11).

The analogy that fits better is putting Windows XP Service Pack 3 on one of the first comps to be able to run Windows XP.

@ your #4: In the hopes that they'll drop the ps2 (like they very well should because there is absolutely no reason to continue support aside from pure stubborness) and give us new content. Until such a time, the price has devalued.

Updates/Tweaks to the game in its current state is not an expansion or extension of gameplay neither are the abbysea zones, they are merely rewrites.

As for not playing on the ps2, then you have even less reason to defend it's support, less you be trollin. Which I am seriously beginning to believe is the fact of the matter.

I am not trolling. I am making the case that there are legitimate reasons for not abandoning the PS2 platform and the player base it serves. I am making this case because it needs to be made so that people like you can come to comprehend the reasons for why all you seem to see is "PS2 LIMITATIONS" when you ask why the game doesn't get the big expansions and new stuff that it used to.

As for people who have a 360/PC capable of running FFXI still playing on ps2. The "assumption" that they aren't is a logical process of not using something horribly out of date. Dropping ps2 support won't affect such people. If there are still people who only have the ps2 after that, I simply don't care nor should I when that extremely small minority is only holding the rest of us back. Another fact regarding this matter: their ps2s aren't going to hold out much longer. Sure they can go dump money into another "used" ps2 (that also probably won't last much longer) but they could most likely get a PC (or even a laptop/netbook) that can flawlessly run ffxi (even better to boot) for equal to or less than that price.

You keep saying it's such an extremely small minority" but you have no data to back it up while I've brought out evidence that it's roughly one in five players, which is not a small minority by any stretch.

[Volkai]

Regurgitating a quote pyramid adds nothing to this discussion and you know it.

You appear to be on the PS2 side of the fence as it were, so please explain to me why folks are inclined to rabidly defend the PS2.

A significant percentage of players still use it. Therefore, it is still worth supporting.

Instead of saying "PS2 players should upgrade or get left behind, let's force them to spend more money to play FFXI" why don't you try and come up with some real solutions?