R/M/E 99 to 119 upgrade info and findings

[Zumi]

The congestion for RME items is not in bcnms because the seals have an abysmal drop rate.

The real congestion is at ??? at Mata, Chapuli, Raptor, and to a lesser extent taxet. The easy pop-able delve nms. If the dev team was worried about congestion, they should check out "Johnny Q Dualboxer" hogging the mata ??? for 10 hours straight, who starts to complain when you get in a pop and starts yelling obscenities at you.

[FaeQueenCory]

So log-in event wise, we can buy 1 SKC for 100 points, or buy 10 bseals for 100 points, and will soon be able to convert the ten bseals at 3-to-1 into 3 SKCs. So why would anyone buy one SKC from event when they could get three times as many by buying bseals and converting them.
I am farming seals again now , new and old. The problem is that most people doing the SKCNM fights are doing runs in closed LS groups, they don't want to do PUGs and risk wasting their SKCs because of PUG-related mishaps. And most of the smaller LS are nearly empty post SoA, including ours. So the problem isn't so much obtaining seals, it is obtaining people who want to do the bcnms and who have spaces in their group.

Bold is the other half of the problem....
Which would also be solved with adding the conversion table.

"oh no! this PUG wiped! now I'm down 20 SKC..."
With the conversion available it becomes:
"oh no! this PUG wiped! now I'm down 20 SKC... Oh well... I got xbajillion other seals, I'll just go convert some more."

(also, it's really hard to tell because... Japanese is the devil... but it seems like they might be postponing adding the conversion? Like... there's an implication from this: "こちらは、今後のバージョンアップで対応します。
交換レートやルールは、従来通りにする予定です。" that makes it seem like when they add the conversion... it'll be like the December update... BUT... maybe they'll add it in tomorrow's maintenance... this kind of thing is the programming level of an intern with a spreadsheet... But even if it won't happen until December at the earliest... at least it will be a 3:1 rate... instead of some new stupid rate.)

[Zumi]

Yeah but some of us don't have millions of seals. For example I converted countless thousands of seals into kindred seals to spam ks99 for the sole purpose of helping LS Members obtain their Black Belt items. I lost count of how many times I did this in the last few years. I don't even play monk but I was happy to use my seals to help LS members.

To recap ; the Af1 99 upgrade path is bloody awful. The finished Af1-99 is practically the same as the higher end bayld & skirmish armors which can be obtained in absolutely no time and being AFK too. To have to grind 1000s of bcnm crests to upgrade some af1 sets is bullshit, when you consider they are not that much better than what is available for free with 18k Bayld. Add to that the low server numbers, and the fact that most ppl spamming those bcnms are doing so in statics on their endgame LS, what you have got is a new Af1 upgrade system that penalises solo players and players who are on low-man LS, or simply in LS (like mine) that are nearly empty since SoA arrived and pissed everyone off and made them play Tetris instead.

Even if the spamming bcnm requirement for multiple sets of upgraded af1 were actually just CS trigger soloable bcnms, and not requiring thousands of crests, it would still be a fairly bullshit system compared to storyline reward systems and quest-specific battlefields. But if the upgrading Af1 via solo bcnm option was there I would take it, because nobody on my LS wants to upgrade af1 and ppl arent doing PUGs for it either. So SE designed a brand new brick wall for people to be brought to a dead stop by. Praise Altana.

Have you done the new BCNM? There have different difficulty levels. Normal was a joke it probably can be beat with 2 or 3 people. Took 6 people and destroyed it on normal the mobs hardly hit for any damage at all. Really only level 4 or 5 are very challenging and require a full group.

I haven't done easy or very easy but I assume they are soloable. There is your solo option.

If you only have a small number of people, do 2 normal mode bcnm instead of going for level 5. You get 3 drops from level 3, 5 drops from level 5, but level 3 is so easy you can easily low man it.

[FaeQueenCory]

Yeah but some of us don't have millions of seals. For example I converted countless thousands of seals into kindred seals to spam ks99 for the sole purpose of helping LS Members obtain their Black Belt items. I lost count of how many times I did this in the last few years. I don't even play monk but I was happy to use my seals to help LS members.

To recap ; the Af1 99 upgrade path is bloody awful. The finished Af1-99 is practically the same as the higher end bayld & skirmish armors which can be obtained in absolutely no time and being AFK too. To have to grind 1000s of bcnm crests to upgrade some af1 sets is bullshit, when you consider they are not that much better than what is available for free with 18k Bayld. Add to that the low server numbers, and the fact that most ppl spamming those bcnms are doing so in statics on their endgame LS, what you have got is a new Af1 upgrade system that penalises solo players and players who are on low-man LS, or simply in LS (like mine) that are nearly empty since SoA arrived and pissed everyone off and made them play Tetris instead.

Even if the spamming bcnm requirement for multiple sets of upgraded af1 were actually just CS trigger soloable bcnms, and not requiring thousands of crests, it would still be a fairly bullshit system compared to storyline reward systems and quest-specific battlefields. But if the upgrading Af1 via solo bcnm option was there I would take it, because nobody on my LS wants to upgrade af1 and ppl arent doing PUGs for it either. So SE designed a brand new brick wall for people to be brought to a dead stop by. Praise Altana.

That's true. Not everyone has the resources I do... but I didn't mean to imply that you did too.
I was just saying that having the conversion option alleviates the need to farm SKCs exclusively. Because even if you don't have a bajillion seals, the "dead seal drops" that you get while farming the SKC can then become SKC and thus aren't dead drops anymore.

The MNKs I know had gotten their BB a long time ago... So the only BCNMs that I have ever needed seals to help someone else has been the Beastmen Seal seals....
But yeah, my point was that having the conversion means that any other seals that drop while farming the SKC will hold the potential to be a SKC too.

Have you done the new BCNM? There have different difficulty levels. Normal was a joke it probably can be beat with 2 or 3 people. Took 6 people and destroyed it on normal the mobs hardly hit for any damage at all. Really only level 4 or 5 are very challenging and require a full group.

I haven't done easy or very easy but I assume they are soloable. There is your solo option.

If you only have a small number of people, do 2 normal mode bcnm instead of going for level 5. You get 3 drops from level 3, 5 drops from level 5, but level 3 is so easy you can easily low man it.

This is very good to hear.... buuuuut... the 1:1 page:BCNM pop requires 1000 SKCs just to 109ify a single set...
while having the solo option is good.
And it's even feasible.... if the conversion was allowable.

Most people do not have all jobs at 99.
But most people DO have 2-3 jobs leveled to 99 that they will want 109ification for.... at least.
So... basically we really need the conversion to let everyone have access.

Tbh I haven't tried because I'm still farming SKC. Also I wasn't sure if it had entry requirement 6/6. It doesn't say 1-6 players it says requirement 6. On POL, under the "upgrade AF" tab it also says 20 kindred's crests, rather than SKC. Again that confused me. I have a fairly confused factory-setting to begin with (getting old!) so those POL announcements don't help.

I have only heard of people doing it on 6/6. If it is soloable or duoable they should say that on POL. What they said "20 kindreds crests to enter" shouldn't that say 20 SKC? And it says"restrictions : 6 persons" normally it would say "1-6 persons" if it was soloable. Seriously though if it is duoable I have a friend who wants to build the new AF. I'm certainly happy to try, I've been soloing bcnm for a long time. I just wasn't sure if they locked it for 6 person only. Also not sure if it can be done by two people in 30 mins. A lot of solo/low man stuff like this results in the mob on like 2% and you time out, which is ok if its just a mission battlefield but it sucks when you are losing 20 SKC for it.
As it is, a) I'm still farming the SKCs and b) as other have pointed out this system is mega b@ll$, AF should never involve farming thousands of seals, and more so when equally powerful armors can be obtained for like 0.01% of the effort in skirmish or from the Peacekeepers lol. Its just a fail idea, and I realise they are "organic process" and trying stuff out, but I think they made an error on it to use bcnm and crests.
But I will get an orb tomorrow and try to enter on solo or duo. But that doesn't change the fact that its a dumb system really, theres like 100 other ways they could have upgraded af1 without losing any of the work ethic or challenge. And those ways would be more fun too.

That's all translation "error".
You see... Japanese is... something.
The Japanese you'll learn in a university classroom is nothing like the Japanese people speak...
Every language has dialects... but this isn't a dialectal thing...
The truth is.... Japanese people don't speak in full sentences.
Like... 70% of sentences spoken will be just a verb, or just a noun... nothing else.
And this happens in writing too... though less frequently in text than in rl speech.
The thing is, Japanese is a 100% context based language. Hence why "kindred crests" is in the notes... because Japanese is contextual, makes that mean the Sacred Kindred Crests....
Though it's been almost a week since I looked at the original JP announcement... soooooooo... I could be misremembering and it's just a localization error.
But recall that it was just "demon seal" and not "holy demon seal"... But I could be misremembering.

[Dragoy]

The item collection part doesn't bother me since you can buy the stuff, but the requirement of the Delve win does.

Well there is the option of clearing one of the new battlefields in “difficult” or “very difficult” setting instead of Menace Inspection.

And, Dragoy, while I have not had Eliosha for every long... only a few years now...
Eliosha has about 500ish for every seal.

I don't have very much playtime either... 698'ish days, but much like Stompa there, I have repeatedly used all of my crests/seals to either try my luck on a Kraken Club or the Black Belt items (from which the latter, especially the behemoth tongue took ages, was for a friend, and we didn't even find one in over 10 battles (but I digress)).

Them seals and crests just don't come my way (not partying for EXP probably isn't helping).

Also I wasn't sure if it had entry requirement 6/6. It doesn't say 1-6 players it says requirement 6. On POL, under the "upgrade AF" tab it also says 20 kindred's crests, rather than SKC.

I agree that it could be clearer, though I personally just imagined it meaning 'up to 6'. And yes, the mistake regarding the crests still isn't fixed, even though the matter has been reported on the day of the update...

Tsk.


I'll still wait the alternative options they'll come up with, and if I happen to find enough siegels, I'll go and take a look see.

[Byrth]

... the 1:1 page:BCNM pop requires 1000 SKCs just to 109ify a single set...

My impression is that every person at the BC gets 2 pages per completion, and then the BC itself drops 1-5 pages based on the difficulty mode. So if you solo the easiest mode you get 3 drops per orb. If you do the hardest mode (YPYD) in a group of 6, you get 17 pages per orb.

It takes 5 pages to upgrade a +1 piece and 10 pages to upgrade a NQ piece. So really:
Solo - 33 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 67 SKCs per NQ upgrade; 167 SKCs per +1 full set upgraded, 333 SKCs per NQ full set upgraded
Hard Mode Party - 6 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 12 SKCs per NQ upgrade

If you're really going to go about soloing it, I would hope that you can also go solo Limbus (can enter every day now) and upgrade your stuff from NQ to +1.

[FaeQueenCory]

I don't have very much playtime either... 698'ish days, but much like Stompa there, I have repeatedly used all of my crests/seals to either try my luck on a Kraken Club or the Black Belt items (from which the latter, especially the behemoth tongue took ages, was for a friend, and we didn't even find one in over 10 battles (but I digress)).

Them seals and crests just don't come my way (not partying for EXP probably isn't helping).

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that you should have a lot of seals or anything...
I was just giving my example of a 2yrold character who has >2000 useless seals... But I know a lot of my friends don't have the seals that I have... I, unlike you, have just been lucky...

Ultimately, it's like what I said to Stompa, adding the conversions will help everyone.
For those that don't have many seals: any new seal will be able to be turned into a SKC, making 0 "dead" seal drops.
For those that already have a stockpile: they can now actually use the seals they have saved up for something worthwhile.

My impression is that every person at the BC gets 2 pages per completion, and then the BC itself drops 1-5 pages based on the difficulty mode. So if you solo the easiest mode you get 3 drops per orb. If you do the hardest mode (YPYD) in a group of 6, you get 17 pages per orb.

It takes 5 pages to upgrade a +1 piece and 10 pages to upgrade a NQ piece. So really:
Solo - 33 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 67 SKCs per NQ upgrade; 167 SKCs per +1 full set upgraded, 333 SKCs per NQ full set upgraded
Hard Mode Party - 6 SKCs per +1 upgrade, 12 SKCs per NQ upgrade

If you're really going to go about soloing it, I would hope that you can also go solo Limbus (can enter every day now) and upgrade your stuff from NQ to +1.

From my understanding.... it's based upon the difficulty of the BCNM.
very easy = 1
very hard = 4

With easy being soloable, that's still 10pgs needed... meaning 10 BCNMs. Meaning 200 SKC just for a single piece of AF... not a whole set, just a hat or a glove.
For the set, that's 5x more... so 1000 SKCs.

I am not sure where you got the idea that they all drop 2 and then a bonus based on difficulty... if that's so... GREAT.
But I don't recall ever seeing that in the notes.
And further... I don't see how you get 13 SKCs... are you fractioning for 2 runs giving you a little more than 5? Cause... that's inherently misleading. You can't do that.
You can't spend 13 SKCs on an orb. It will cost you 40 per +1 upgrade no matter what, assuming you are not mistaken about the base/bonus page drops.
So your SKC numbers are just wrong.
Sure you might end up with "extra" seals...
But you can't fraction the cost of the entry item to be less than the entry item's cost.

And I didn't know Limbus was a daily thing now... I thought it was still 3day cooldown...
Well that's good to know... I guess. (I despise Limbus and the way you +1 the AF1s... too much randomness.... too much... grind without any gain, if that makes any sense...)
So it might very well be advantageous for people to +1 their AF1 first...

But ultimately that's a personal choice. (I hate Limbus so much, I am more than willing to spend some more SKCs on a couple more BCNMs... plus, I just don't have the TIME to Limbus+1 4 AF1s... and that's only when I can actually afford to do so by using my resources... some people have time, others have gil, I just have seals and never enough of the other two.)

[Ascadia]

So, let me make sure that I'm understanding this. You guys (Square Enix) held off on allowing us to exchange Beastmen seals, Kindred Crests, and High Kindred Crests for Sacred Kindred Crests due to fear of congestion on the instanced servers. Correct? Similarly, you're allowing us to upgrade our reforged AF (iLevel 109) to AF+1 (iLevel 119), in December, at which point you will also presumably be allowing us to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests.

While currently the item level is 109, we are planning to increase it to 119 in the December version update.

After this, we would like to add upgrade content in a slightly different fashion for relic and empyrean armor.

As difficult and time-consuming as it is to farm seals now, and as few people care enough about iLevel 109 gear to put forth the time and effort to farm the seals, not many people have the reforged AF. The desire for the iLevel 119 reforged AF, however (which will presumably require the base reforged AF) will be much higher, leading to much more interest in doing the battlefields, which they will be able to do due to being able to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests.

My point is this: in delaying the ability to exchange for Sacred Kindred Crests due to fear of server congestion, you've increased the amount of congestion the servers will experience in December past what it would have been otherwise. In my opinion, a viable solution would be to have a maintenance, mini-update, or something similar before the December update (the sooner the better) to allow us to exchange seals for Sacred Kindred Crests so that more people will have the base reforged AF. Think of it as spreading the server load out over time instead of waiting for it to explode when the December update is released.

Just my two cents.

[Zumi]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that you should have a lot of seals or anything...
I was just giving my example of a 2yrold character who has >2000 useless seals... But I know a lot of my friends don't have the seals that I have... I, unlike you, have just been lucky...

Ultimately, it's like what I said to Stompa, adding the conversions will help everyone.
For those that don't have many seals: any new seal will be able to be turned into a SKC, making 0 "dead" seal drops.
For those that already have a stockpile: they can now actually use the seals they have saved up for something worthwhile.


From my understanding.... it's based upon the difficulty of the BCNM.
very easy = 1
very hard = 4

With easy being soloable, that's still 10pgs needed... meaning 10 BCNMs. Meaning 200 SKC just for a single piece of AF... not a whole set, just a hat or a glove.
For the set, that's 5x more... so 1000 SKCs.

I am not sure where you got the idea that they all drop 2 and then a bonus based on difficulty... if that's so... GREAT.
But I don't recall ever seeing that in the notes.
And further... I don't see how you get 13 SKCs... are you fractioning for 2 runs giving you a little more than 5? Cause... that's inherently misleading. You can't do that.
You can't spend 13 SKCs on an orb. It will cost you 40 per +1 upgrade no matter what, assuming you are not mistaken about the base/bonus page drops.
So your SKC numbers are just wrong.
Sure you might end up with "extra" seals...
But you can't fraction the cost of the entry item to be less than the entry item's cost.

And I didn't know Limbus was a daily thing now... I thought it was still 3day cooldown...
Well that's good to know... I guess. (I despise Limbus and the way you +1 the AF1s... too much randomness.... too much... grind without any gain, if that makes any sense...)
So it might very well be advantageous for people to +1 their AF1 first...

But ultimately that's a personal choice. (I hate Limbus so much, I am more than willing to spend some more SKCs on a couple more BCNMs... plus, I just don't have the TIME to Limbus+1 4 AF1s... and that's only when I can actually afford to do so by using my resources... some people have time, others have gil, I just have seals and never enough of the other two.)

When you do the new bcnm there is personal drops and chest drops. Difficulty is 1 - 5. If you soloed something on lv1 you would get 2 personal drops, and 1 from the chest for a total of 3. Also update notes are vague and don't give the full story and often have translation errors.

[Demon6324236]

Here is what you have to look forward to. So far as I understand Monsters in Monstrosity will be able to level past 99 somehow, likely involving Infamy, but in either case. The idea I figure is get a monster to 99, once that update hits, level in a PvP uncapped zone so long as those exist, and tada, you win, play Monstrosity, have fun, enjoy yourself, be overpowered as all hell, and you can get SKCs still!