Item level / vertical progression query

[Zephrose]

I can't see why vertical wouldn't be the way to go... If you want to go somewhere, why not UP?! Moving laterally is only going to do the same thing but in more minor movements and in all the same systems.

Honestly, this game isn't updated in the right way to make Vertical leaps well accepted. Truly, when the expansion came out, that was the best position for Vertical leaping. Everyone felt it and moved up to it. Not quickly but at a good pace. What destroyed this, and it's classic SE since ToAU, is the amount of content and forced leaping the player would have to do in order to obtain the gear for the higher content. They got this right in the Delve fights, as players started to gain the gear from the NMs, they started winning more fights. However, outside of delve, the balyd system with reives and WKRs, this system failed. No amount of growth was really needed for WKR. Better gear is always going to make a difference, but even Yum/Hurk didnt need delve gear to beat it. Just a mass of bodies thrown at them.

This game has had a growth issue since I cant remember in ToAU. It's only gotten worse since. WotG is a great example too. How long was it before we got an update? A year? Sounds about right.

But to might point, a game is meant to challenge you. If the devs challenge is to get the newest gear to make you feel stronger, then eat it up. Otherwise, you might want to look somewhere else. Cuz essentially, vertically or laterally, you'll be doing the same thing anyways, right? Unless you just want the gear to look pretty... go play IMVU haha.

[Afania]

But to might point, a game is meant to challenge you. If the devs challenge is to get the newest gear to make you feel stronger, then eat it up. Otherwise, you might want to look somewhere else. Cuz essentially, vertically or laterally, you'll be doing the same thing anyways, right? Unless you just want the gear to look pretty... go play IMVU haha.

I feel sad if you think it's all the same lol. For me getting SoA gear in XI or Allagan/philosophy/mythology gears feel the same, all just "oh, ok, let's wait until next IL tier come out and toss it".

There are several gears in XI I was like "OMGOMGOMG YEAHHHH FINALLY" when I got it, because it's best in slot and unlikely to be replaced, on top of taking very long time to get.

They are just not the same. I was doing the same thing, kill stuff and get loot, but the satisfaction isn't the same.

[Mostfowl]

I feel sad if you think it's all the same lol. For me getting SoA gear in XI or Allagan/philosophy/mythology gears feel the same, all just "oh, ok, let's wait until next IL tier come out and toss it".

There are several gears in XI I was like "OMGOMGOMG YEAHHHH FINALLY" when I got it, because it's best in slot and unlikely to be replaced, on top of taking very long time to get.

They are just not the same. I was doing the same thing, kill stuff and get loot, but the satisfaction isn't the same.

Agreed.

Remember how amazing great it was to get rdm hat or thf hands in dyna, salvage gears or odin/omega drops, black belt or maats cap? You could walk around and be proud to wear them because you earned it. Even some nm drops were an accomplishment and would be cause for celebration. Now they are practically handing things out. We may as well form a line and get it from a moogle dispensary. It made the game fun struggling for gear and the struggle for gear wasn't bad because you knew once you got it that you would be using it for years to come. Now it really feels pointless to work for any piece of gear because you know in a month or 2 you just are going to toss it for something better anyway. So you go for the 5 minute drop then afk in your shiny new piece until the next update when you toss it for something better.

Regardless you are working for gear but I would much rather be challenged and work for a piece that I am going to use for a long time instead of doing only soso challenging content for a piece that Im going to drop next update

[Zumi]

Agreed.

Remember how amazing great it was to get rdm hat or thf hands in dyna, salvage gears or odin/omega drops, black belt or maats cap? You could walk around and be proud to wear them because you earned it. Even some nm drops were an accomplishment and would be cause for celebration. Now they are practically handing things out. We may as well form a line and get it from a moogle dispensary. It made the game fun struggling for gear and the struggle for gear wasn't bad because you knew once you got it that you would be using it for years to come. Now it really feels pointless to work for any piece of gear because you know in a month or 2 you just are going to toss it for something better anyway. So you go for the 5 minute drop then afk in your shiny new piece until the next update when you toss it for something better.

Regardless you are working for gear but I would much rather be challenged and work for a piece that I am going to use for a long time instead of doing only soso challenging content for a piece that Im going to drop next update

You are talking about grinding a long time 1% salvage drop rates repeating the same zone like 300 times for 1 drop I.E. SSR Turtle back at 75 cap. Or camping HNM vs a bunch of botting LS trying to get that Nidhogg claim for Ebody, dalmatica ect. What we have now is bascially the same thing, only its designed better so you don't have to do 300 runs for a 1% drop rate you only need to do 1 run.

There is more skill and coordination involved now with delve bosses then there ever was with salvage. With campable NMs the fight was extremely easy the hard part was getting the claim. 5NM+boss kills besides Tojil are tuned pretty well tuned and were at least somewhat challenging for first time kills. Personally I rather be doing lots of new content as it comes out to get the next higher tier gear then running something really easy 300 times like salvage 1.0 and not even get the drop.

I find it fun getting new gear and progressing your character.

[Mostfowl]

I find it fun getting new gear and progressing your character.

But getting drops from salvage and what not WAS progressing your char. And content like salvage, dyna, einherjar, etc even repeated took skill. We had a ls that ran Dyna and salvage for literally years and it was always fun. Not to mention we helped countless ppl climb nyzle isle and again it was good times. Its not like XIV's AK or WP where you can burn thru with substandard gear and pay only 20% attn. to your screen or SoA content where you only have to really do it once or if you do have to spam it, you can afk or again give only 20%.

If you like gear progression there is tons of games out there for you but what ffxi unique and fun was the "grindfests". Sure you had to do content often but it was good content. And you want to talk easy when it came to nms after claim? Really? There were many many nms that were not easy even if you got claim, some even seasoned vets still had a hard time with and could wipe easily to. And if you enjoy new content your failing to realize your content is severely limited atm. with the introduction of the new progression your basically limited to a couple events and the myriad of other systems and content in the game is now null and void. Einherjar, Limbus, Nyzul, Salvage, MMM, BCNM, Sky, Sea, ZNM, HNM, Besieged, Campaign, to name just some of the content that was available. Now what do you have? A handful at best.

Really if you look at the sheer amount of ppl who have left and the rest who are departing or on here screaming at SE to stop this madness, you my dear are in the minority on this one

[Zephrose]

But getting drops from salvage and what not WAS progressing your char. And content like salvage, dyna, einherjar, etc even repeated took skill. We had a ls that ran Dyna and salvage for literally years and it was always fun. Not to mention we helped countless ppl climb nyzle isle and again it was good times. Its not like XIV's AK or WP where you can burn thru with substandard gear and pay only 20% attn. to your screen or SoA content where you only have to really do it once or if you do have to spam it, you can afk or again give only 20%.

If you like gear progression there is tons of games out there for you but what ffxi unique and fun was the "grindfests". Sure you had to do content often but it was good content. And you want to talk easy when it came to nms after claim? Really? There were many many nms that were not easy even if you got claim, some even seasoned vets still had a hard time with and could wipe easily to. And if you enjoy new content your failing to realize your content is severely limited atm. with the introduction of the new progression your basically limited to a couple events and the myriad of other systems and content in the game is now null and void. Einherjar, Limbus, Nyzul, Salvage, MMM, BCNM, Sky, Sea, ZNM, HNM, Besieged, Campaign, to name just some of the content that was available. Now what do you have? A handful at best.

Really if you look at the sheer amount of ppl who have left and the rest who are departing or on here screaming at SE to stop this madness, you my dear are in the minority on this one

What are you talking about? NNI, HNM, Salvage2.0 and Dynamis gear is still useful... And still gives you that grinding feeling. To say you have less to do is not entirely true. Infact, delve only forced alot of those more recent events to be completed. With Mnks and Brd having to complete Dynamis augments. All light melee jobs need Thaumas gear. Paladins need twilight and ochain. I mean, really, to move forward, you still need to visit the past. How is any of this new content narrowing your content view?

I'm gonna have to side with Zumi, getting new gear and progressing your character is fun! And guess what!? YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS! The new systems SE is introducing to FFxi is simply faster at getting it. Abyssea was the same. Then people complained that was too quick so they introduced VW... And gawd... did people complain how SLOW they got their gear. You see what I'm driving too? It's the same progression, different pace, yet again.

And to point out minorities, I believe most people on this forum are in it. Because the majority of players I see online at night don't give a F$#K about how they get their gear, just as long as they get it. And guess what, again?! I HAVE FUN GETTING MY GEARZ TOO!

[Zephrose]

I feel sad if you think it's all the same lol. For me getting SoA gear in XI or Allagan/philosophy/mythology gears feel the same, all just "oh, ok, let's wait until next IL tier come out and toss it".

There are several gears in XI I was like "OMGOMGOMG YEAHHHH FINALLY" when I got it, because it's best in slot and unlikely to be replaced, on top of taking very long time to get.

They are just not the same. I was doing the same thing, kill stuff and get loot, but the satisfaction isn't the same.

You just said it, you're doing the same thing now as you were then.(In Bold) Granted, it's just easier to do now. And like I said, it wasn't quick at first. They just released a bad expansion. I mean, it could be a great expansion, but I think it's backwards or just lack luster at best. In the end, they aren't releasing enough content fast enough for the players to stay active OR content HARD/DIFFICULT enough(like the old days) to keep the players engaged.

The old days everyone talks about are grindmills and torture. Albeit, I enjoyed Salvage alot and hated the drop system, I'm glad I can walk into it now with a couple of friends and just leisurely work on gear that doesn't matter anymore. But I would hate to see this game revert back to the days of 4hour party look ups, 3-48hr NM camps, and the pulling teeth farms. If you want that "OMG" gear, you still have RME's to work towards.

A good way to think of it, from then to now, is in terms of Scaled content. The amount of content versus the difficulty versus the player base. Was this not the same for Abyssea? VW? WKR? Delve? Everything in between?

Honestly, I'm getting sick of these topics with "I dont like this or that". I know we're hear to voice our opinion so the devs can take note, but in the end, it's not our game. If you don't like it, and you really want to show them you mean it, quit... Ranting and raving is only going to disappoint you and leave you wondering why you wasted so much time complaining about something so trivial when you could have just been doing something you liked elsewhere.