Final fantasy 14 broke a record for a japan mmo. Might effect ffxi. Player base?.

[Duelle]

Again, where does a thief or paladin learn class play in soloing. Where does a white mage?

A class built on a bad gimmick, a class that is thought of as a tank but lacks the staples of class design, and the job that suffered from sustainability issues for a good chunk of its existence should arise the question of how to fix them before we get into gameplay.

Yep and the only tank I've ever played that kind of naturally taught you how to play it was ninja. As you well know, people that picked up red mage would solo one way and be greatly disappointed with how different party play was.

You forget that NIN was never intended to tank, and as a freak occurrence would have been nerfed and redesigned to meet the vision the devs had for the job. RDM's problem was that the job's design was so horrible that you generally had no idea how to use it in group play. The solos are simply products of the hands-off approach the devs took when they should have nerfed Bind, Gravity and Utsusemi to the ground. That's not even getting into the melee issue.

Forced partying doesn't *make* you a better player, but a lack of partying hurts your opportunity to be, and then you get, as did happen in WoW, tanks new to level cap who had no idea how to hold hate. They'd come in in DPS gear, because it worked for 60, 70, 80 levels and get plowed over.

Funny thing is that WoW's devs removed defense rating to get rid of that problem, and as someone who did the transition from TBC to WotLK to Cata as a prot warrior, I can tell you it's sort of worked.

All of these games could be designed better, to teach players without the need for group play, but they never think that far ahead, thus the best source of learning how to interact with other players is interacting with other players.

Again, smart class design does wonders. Multiple abilities, decent explanations of what the abilities do, introduce the abilities in an order that gives players the time to figure out their use and implement them into their rotation. WoW never had the issue of "we don't know what this ability does nor how it works"; hell, the closest we ever got to it was the long discussion on how Armor Penetration worked back in Wrath, and even that got sorted out when the lead developer joined the discussion to help explain ArP.

[Crusader81]

With the way things are now, How could anyone return to ffXI in 3 months? New adoulin gear will be added, and stuff will likely mean that returning players will be far behind in gear, and will be unable to get into events.

Also, the only games that ffXIV should be compared to are WoW and FFXI. Blizzard and Square Enix are the only developers that can create MMOs on their own budgets. Every other developer has to depend on investors, and when their investors can't get their money back, they switch to F2P. Switching to F2P will remove the monthly subscription fees, but will also introduce a pay-to-win system, which makes large amounts of money extremely fast. Square Enix will not have this kind of pressure because there are no investors to pay off. FFXIV will continue to receive quality updates that will keep the game alive for a very long time.

That being said, I think any population decreases in ffXI won't really matter. They can always perform server merges if people have too much trouble finding events.

This is exactly where I'm at now.... I spent all my years building up sets for all my jobs.. Relic weapon.. and now it's all useless..and I'm not going to take the time to get the new stuff..

SO XI is done. After playing ARR I realized how slow and casual this game is.. it's rather shocking.

[Daemon]

I went through hell 3 times when FFXIV first launched. I already said it before from getting mugged to spending hours in the police station looking over hundreds of photos to not being able to point out the muggers sent home before actually being able to play 14 only to be even much more disappointed that I went through all that for such a crappy game that I bought twice.

Let me Breathe for a second...

K...

After watching so many YouTube videos, to reading so many great comments on several forums.

I'm already sold that it will make an awesome come back and this time it looks like they got it right.

Btw the first release did look beautiful. Just lacking way too much to be considered a standard MMORPG. It failed to keep players there.

They just spent a couple of years adding way more content doing a major overhaul.

It really shows impressively in all of the current vids I've seen.

The amount of money SE spent to do all of it doesn't say Yay lets build it fast and mess up again to lose all we invested and waste all of the musicians, voice actors, graphic designers, A&R, Managers, reps, GMs, Analyzers, Advertisements, Commercials, Interviews, TV, Radio, and whatever other paid workers time it took to make 14 reborn again for round 2.

Watch the video in this link on how they explain the gamepad and ease of use they made controlling character.

The details are so extreme, I can tell they really put a lot of time to do everything right.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21...a-realm-reborn

They even explained how they made 14 to be very easy and quick for anyone who wants to play. Which was the big mistake the original 14 didn't provide.

The reviews were soooo bad on the first one. Even videos from game sites telling you every horrible mistake. I'm sure SE sat down with the DEVs and listened to every single comment and decided spending additional millions of dollars to correct them.

I mean who in the right mind would throw millions of dollars away??

Bad review from 2010
http://m.ign.com/articles/2010/10/12...asy-xiv-review

It's not about trying to convince anyone to quit FFXI to play 14. But when a new version of Final Fantasy is released, everyone who is a fan of Final Fantasy in General will bring up the topic regardless.

Or else you truly were never a fan to begin with.
This video brought interest back to me.
http://youtu.be/q2RghB8r4tA

This Video made it a done deal.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=39j5v8jlndM

I'm switching over for sure. End of story. No doubts and no regrets.

[Falseliberty]

You know I really want 14 to succeed, but one thing I would like is if the 14 players that have jumped ship to leave us 11 players the hell alone already. Just because your done with 11 doesn't mean we are. Stop reminding us that you left and found "greener pastures" WE DON'T CARE.

If I wanna find information on 14 I know where to look, go talk about 14 in the 14 forums >.>

I find it sad that I now respect the opinion of WoW players regarding 14 than I do ex 11 players that for some reason or an other just wanna see 11 burn now that they have left

[OmnysValefor]

A class built on a bad gimmick, a class that is thought of as a tank but lacks the staples of class design, and the job that suffered from sustainability issues for a good chunk of its existence should arise the question of how to fix them before we get into gameplay.

So you can't answer the question so you changed the topic.

You forget that NIN was never intended to tank, and as a freak occurrence would have been nerfed and redesigned to meet the vision the devs had for the job. RDM's problem was that the job's design was so horrible that you generally had no idea how to use it in group play. The solos are simply products of the hands-off approach the devs took when they should have nerfed Bind, Gravity and Utsusemi to the ground. That's not even getting into the melee issue.

I didn't forget it, but it wasn't worth mentioning. It's something we all know. It speaks volumes about the dev team at that point that they didn't see how utsusemi was ideal for tanking in a game where, at the time, mana was a precious commodity and tanks could be killed in 2 hits. Especially the original utsusemi.

Funny thing is that WoW's devs removed defense rating to get rid of that problem, and as someone who did the transition from TBC to WotLK to Cata as a prot warrior, I can tell you it's sort of worked.

At least when I quit, during cata, gear had parry and dodge. Tanks became innately uncrittable, but tanks in DD gear still got trucked.

Again, smart class design does wonders. Multiple abilities, decent explanations of what the abilities do, introduce the abilities in an order that gives players the time to figure out their use and implement them into their rotation. WoW never had the issue of "we don't know what this ability does nor how it works"; hell, the closest we ever got to it was the long discussion on how Armor Penetration worked back in Wrath, and even that got sorted out when the lead developer joined the discussion to help explain ArP.

Edit: I've just never seen a game care to teach party roles. Many games, FFXIV included, give training dummies so the DPS can practice their thing but they drop healers and tanks right in the middle, without a clue, unless the person has gone to other people, or is the rare natural.

True. WoW also has their LUA interface which allowed people to test things in very very controlled settings and conclude things for ourselves. The first Omen Threat Meter was based on how much threat we thought things had, which was much easier since there was no hate decay in wow.

Of course, Ghostcrawler also decided that the whole lead-dev amongst the commoners thing failed and far a large part of the beginning of Cataclysm, they remained very very quiet.

[Duelle]

So you can't answer the question so you changed the topic.

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that you cannot properly learn anything from a class that is badly-designed. I didn't realize how little I had learned from FFXI until I started comparing its mechanics and class design to that of other games.

There's a reason I harped on PLD's design in the shield thread. Without the staples of tank design nor built-in mechanics to support tanking, you have no flow as your character grows and worst of all, no methodology presented during the leveling process. Compare Flash, Cure enmity and provoke if you're subbing WAR to having Heroic Strike with Revenge after blocks, Shield Slam as your heavy hitter with Sword & Board resetting its cooldown, Shockwave and Thunderclap for AoE aggro with Cleave supplementing. The tooltips were enough to tell you that your main enmity hitters were Revenge and Shield Slam with Heroic Strike and Cleave as fillers. It was very intuitive and easy to figure out what to prioritize and what rotation to use. And you could learn that solo if you took the time to read the tooltips.

At least when I quit, during cata, gear had parry and dodge. Tanks became innately uncrittable, but tanks in DD gear still got trucked.

And yet it was the critability that was responsible for most tank deaths. Just like how Crushing Blows would destroy a tank without the right levels of mitigation and avoidance.

Of course, Ghostcrawler also decided that the whole lead-dev amongst the commoners thing failed and far a large part of the beginning of Cataclysm, they remained very very quiet.

That's mostly because he let himself have arguments with posters without knowing when to back off. I still remember the fit he threw in the paladin thread about Vindication, ended up saying "we're removing it because it's overpowered", had the thread locked and deleted. That and meddling too much with the PvP community, which is like standing in the middle of a pack of wolves with steaks wrapped all around you.

...Not mentioning the skirmishes between him and the ret paladin community (which I was a part of).

[Psxpert2011]

Lol at those ppl praising ff14. Its like the same movie after its 100th exibition. See you ff14 fans back in some months with topics like "returning to ffxi, what has changed?"

So much for change. No PS3 support for 11. PS2 limitations and limited enhancement to the game in general. De-population of players, in old zones which discourages new players from enjoying the game and progressing. No new payment options for a 11 year old game which should be cheaper, due to the fact that it's age is starting to show.

New content doesn't actually mean better experience since it's good only for veterans. Old zones go forgotten while IT mobs roam free where they don't belong(like low-level zones) before Abysea.

I've played FF11 for 11 years, I've experience the change, the flux of the economy, the corruption of the dupps and RMT & BOTT movements. So much has happen but as of now, only a new expansion which is further segregating the game from old and new players which yet a better option to choose... yes, I do mean FFXIV:ARR.

I don't think many will come back. It would be only if FFXi gets a major face-lift.

[wildsprite]

oh good this thread again. will XIV effect XI...at first it will. in the long run I doubt it will hurt XI much. that isn't to say that people in this thread aren't right.

the pricing of XI could use an overhaul and it might happen sometime AFTER XIV goes official on the 27th. it would be nice for them to come through with their discount pricing for buying 3 months or more at a time like they said they planned when they talked about billing before when they decided to move all their account related stuff to the SE account system(anyone else remember this?).

an overhaul to the interface for game controllers as well as native xinput support would be nice too, but then again that would mean full DX 9.0c support added to the game(which would mean a overhaul to the POL game engine on windows). i don't count on much of this happening but who knows.

at the very least bit XI still has a few years of life left in it so why not enjoy it while we can.

[Rekin]

A lot of people seem to forget that FFXI isn't just competing with FFXIV, it's competing with EVERY game on the market. Some which can turn out to be much cheaper than FFXI and grant it's players more satisfaction and joy. So yes, FFXIV will effect FFXI but in the event it's effects aren't long lasting, those players might discover another game or franchise they really enjoy and drop FFXI completely.

FFXI will need a major face lift to even see ANY attention from gamers playing new products and it'll have to be streamlined to even receive notice from even other MMO players. The only people who know about FFXI; are those who've played it, FF fans(who still largely ignore the game), people who talked about it(see first group), and diehard mmo players who've most likely dipped in it and then left it. This game has no advertising and is far, far too old for any new player to stick around. Many of us like to criticize and belittle those who come and go on the drop of a hat for this game but that's because most of us here are have invested large parts of our time in this game and are extremely defensive about it's current state in the market. Sure go ahead, boast about how the game is the most successful FF as far as money goes, SE acknowledge's its age and that is why they opted to make a new MMO instead in order to gain that success again because revamping FFXI would cost them greatly, and most likely will not return them that revenue.

Also an important question to long time ffxi players who've actually played other games: How many people would you really suggest this game for? Who actually has time now a days to play as seriously as you do? And are these new events all that fun? Can these things surpass the joy people get from playing other games easily? I doubt it.

[sc4500]

FF14 already has effected ffxi game just look at the amount of players on your servers. To point now on ff14 they are to scared, to show how many people are playing in game like a modern mmo unless it is a records. Just compare to some the most popular steam games and square be amazed at the first month concurrent users. From what square did with ff14 it amazing job and it is a thank you to anyone that understand what they did for ff14 reborn.

Cut 50% of your servers to mules on ff11 that what you got right now. Yet it is not a big deal to them since were still paying for it. Yet now days many people like woke up and like why pay for a npc that does nothing or when afk.

Now the one cool thing is there are some old school players that are like , why not come back and play ffxi . Your seeing that happen now. Yet the ffxi community is set in stone now over the decade and, if they do not know any friends or read the internet on the game after years there SoL.