More Paladin-centered shields needed to close the gap with Aegis & Ochain

[OmnysValefor]

I don't agree with the mentality but I see why it's there.

I see this sentiment a lot.. You want your delves to be slower. You want to have to do more delves? I've never met a single person that wants things to be slower.

It's kind of what you're implying talking down on this "player mentality".

I don't like Delve fodder-farming. In no way is it fun, especially on pld, but I do it. So yeah, just as much as they hope I'm not gonna let the NM's loose or screw up supertanking, I hope the DD are pulling off 9000 point ws's. Get that stuff dead, please.

There are places to have fun in the game, but fodder-farming just needs to be over and quick.

[Karah]

I see this sentiment a lot.. You want your delves to be slower. You want to have to do more delves? I've never met a single person that wants things to be slower.

It's kind of what you're implying talking down on this "player mentality".

I don't like Delve fodder-farming. In no way is it fun, especially on pld, but I do it. So yeah, just as much as they hope I'm not gonna let the NM's loose or screw up supertanking, I hope the DD are pulling off 9000 point ws's. Get that stuff dead, please.

There are places to have fun in the game, but fodder-farming just needs to be over and quick.

This. So much this.

[CrystalWeapon]

I see this sentiment a lot.. You want your delves to be slower. You want to have to do more delves? I've never met a single person that wants things to be slower.

/wave

If you see the sentiment a lot then it means you have met people like this. I'm willing to put up with doing things slower if it means helping out other people. I've done 3k plasm ceizak farms b/c I had friends there and they needed dd's. I've run nyzul isle top to bottom about 12x now b/c ls members need the climb. Not everyone cares about doing things as fast as possible, but with the way things are set up you can't win by being nice. There's not much of a choice.

[FrankReynolds]

Maybe it's because Valefor is low-pop but I see poorly geared pld's in Delve regularly (Don't take that as "No Aegis / Ochain makes them poorly geared.". I see pld's in a dd sword, 5/5 creed +1/+2, 2% dark rings). With those paladins, it usually means I'm tanking 2 NM's.

Now, the delve runs you went to. I'm sure that your sam was rejected soemtimes/several times because you weren't REMd. Either that, or you went with an ls.

Most of the Fracture runs I've been on have only had one paladin. I've never been on / seen shouts for a single run where the PAL didn't have one of these two shields.

On the otherhand, I have been on tons of them where there were magian trial Sams spamming shoha, Drks in full reive gear (including the GS) and wars with AH GA's spamming upheaval.

The only time you need uber DDS in fractures is when you are killing the NMs. On farming runs, a lot of time the DDs are just standing around waiting on repops.

On the other hand, if the paladin isn't uber geared (Read as : doesn't have relic/empy shield), you will spend a lot of time dodging the NMs that killed him.

In other words: PAL is required to sport one of the most annoying items in the game to get just to be invited while DD's can rock AH weapons and get in groups all day. Starting your own group just means that you will have to shout for some other guy that has the shield to come with you.

[OmnysValefor]

No, I see the sentiment on the forums. I've never seen someone in game wish that others in the group brought subpar jobs. People try to bring their own, and their friends, sometimes, but they never try to pug someone subpar.

/yell {Seekers of Adoulin} {Dungeon} {Do you need it?} {Light Staff} {White mage} {Thockcha} {Dancer} {Can I have it?}

[FrankReynolds]

No, I see the sentiment on the forums. I've never seen someone in game wish that others in the group brought subpar jobs. People try to bring their own, and their friends, sometimes, but they never try to pug someone subpar.

/yell {Seekers of Adoulin} {Dungeon} {Do you need it?} {Light Staff} {White mage} {Thockcha} {Dancer} {Can I have it?}

Of course not. They just shout for a whm and take whatever they get. Literally. I actually went on a run where the guy was looking for a whm and asked me if I could change to whm. I told him that I had only been back in game for a couple of weeks, hadn't played whm in over a year and most of my macros probably didn't work. He said just make sure the cure ones work and come along. I did three runs with my AH geared whm with a 35% cure set.

[Taint2]

Most of the Fracture runs I've been on have only had one paladin. I've never been on / seen shouts for a single run where the PAL didn't have one of these two shields.

On the otherhand, I have been on tons of them where there were magian trial Sams spamming shoha, Drks in full reive gear (including the GS) and wars with AH GA's spamming upheaval.

The only time you need uber DDS in fractures is when you are killing the NMs. On farming runs, a lot of time the DDs are just standing around waiting on repops.

On the other hand, if the paladin isn't uber geared (Read as : doesn't have relic/empy shield), you will spend a lot of time dodging the NMs that killed him.

In other words: PAL is required to sport one of the most annoying items in the game to get just to be invited while DD's can rock AH weapons and get in groups all day. Starting your own group just means that you will have to shout for some other guy that has the shield to come with you.

Any geared PLD can tank 2 NMs with Adamas or Steadfast. Holding all 5 NMs requires Ochain/Aegis.

The real issue is most PLDs without Ochain or Aegis are utter crap. (and most with are as well but the shields cover up their terrible play)

[Alerith]

The real issue is most PLDs without Ochain or Aegis are utter crap. (and most with are as well but the shields cover up their terrible play)

I really have to agree here. I don't even believe this quote is elitist.

What I believe in is that PLD is a job that requires a lot more care and attention than other jobs. Is it tragic that the playerbase, content or whatever you choose to blame is requiring Aegis and Ochain? Sure. However, if you're really serious about a job, you'll be working towards the best in slot item that you can get, and even then, it doesn't fully make up for a lack of skill. If you don't have the shields (or aren't working on them and want to play PLD), then you can only expect to go so far.

This can be said for any job you want to main. Most PLDs don't play PLD as a fun little side job. I'd bet a vast majority of them play PLD because they WANT to play PLD, to make it their main and something that can kick ass. These are the players you see with Aegis/Ochain. You also have the players that DO level it as a side job, but these players aren't likely to work on either shield, mostly because PLD isn't a priority for them.

So you have two types of PLD where one group want to be THE PLD and work on those shields, and the other group which are side PLDs that don't really care to take it that far. I'm not saying the side PLDs should get the shaft, but neither should the PLDs that choose to put in the work to be the best at their job.

That being said, there are PLDs with Aegis/Ochain that STILL can't perform well enough, despite having them. The shields are an augment to good players and a crutch to poor ones.

Incorrect, you can mule attestations.

Oh, that's great! So a level 1 CAN make a relic without touching dynamis....


As long as you have a 65+ second character? lol

[FrankReynolds]

Any geared PLD can tank 2 NMs with Adamas or Steadfast. Holding all 5 NMs requires Ochain/Aegis.

The real issue is most PLDs without Ochain or Aegis are utter crap. (and most with are as well but the shields cover up their terrible play)

Any time that you make a certain job a requirement to do content like a tank or a healer and then have 20 other jobs that are completely interchangeable like FFXI does, there is a high likelihood that most of the people who play those required jobs do so only because they have to. So I agree. There's a pretty good chance that most paladins in general are crap.

I'm just saying that there should be a little more middle ground between the people who spent months on BST in dynamis or nin in abyssea and the people who didn't.

[Fynlar]

Too bad Adamas is probably harder to get than Ochain anyway.