95 And Below RME Weapons

[Zagen]

The logical thing to do is determine whether a 99 RME is the starting point for new content (as in, starter content for Adoulin assumes your DPS have a 99RME). If the answer is yes, then you need to make it less ardorous to get there, either by easing a bit on the trials or introduce something with which to leapfrog the need for RME altogether (currently there is none).

With the exception of Delve Fracture Bosses I have yet to do (haven't done the bosses myself though) anything in SoA that requires R/E/M for any of the DDs. Just like before SoA they are helpful but not required.

[Bstmode]

Sorry when I used "sink in" it was meant to be a play on your use of "slink in", essentially hoping it will sink in people's head that if they actually took up the leader role they'd get away with so much when talking about gear/job expectations instead of trying to sneak in.

Way to slink past the point. When people have difficulty even being invited to participate in an event unless already geared by that event, something is wrong. It's like being asked to show ID when you're going to obtain a driver's license.

Let the irony "sink in"...

We're talking about weapons that are obtained through magian trials which are based completely on progression. You start at point A and progress through other points until you reach your destination. No skipping over or slinking through content. You start and progress until you're done.

In Delve on the other hand, you're expected to already be at your destination before you are eligible to make the trip. Now I understand that this barrier is created by the community, but SE could easily address the issue. Creating your own group doesn't remove the expectation from players that you should be overgeared for the content.

[Zagen]

Creating your own group doesn't remove the expectation from players that you should be overgeared for the content.

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?

[Bstmode]

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?

No, I believe all the elitists were granted what they needed before they even set foot in Delve... /facepalm

[Babekeke]

Do you honestly think someone who's elitist about gear that still needs KIs/plasm and hasn't been brought into a group at this point can still be a chooser over a beggar?

I think this is beyond the point. If I went into a Delve NM ally and realised the leader was on SAM and using level 90 Empy for example, I'd probably only give him 5 mins to finish the alliance, and I'd certainly be keeping an eye out for another ally forming.

This is not because I'm 'elitist', far from it, but the NMs are difficult, pure and simple. It's a waste of everyone's time to go with a group that can't beat the NM.

@Duelle: Many things in SoA can be done without even having 99 r/m/e. Reives for certain, and plasm farming. Wildskeeper Reives and Skirmish, I'm not too sure about as I haven't bothered with them myself yet. Delve NMs however are tiered above r/m/e 99.

Edit: also, I think Duelle might have it right when he said 'ease up on the trials'. When they first announced 1500 HMP, many of us thought that it would eventually be reduced. Now seems like the ideal time, especially since they will not be increasing the power of non-99 r/m/e, no matter what anyone would like.

[Radd]

I don't know if this has been said, but since it is apparent that 75-95 R/M/E are going to be basically old content, and the newer weapons are relatively "easy" to get, they might want to lower the trial redundancy on said weapons. If they aren't top tier unless you grind it for an upwards of 4-6 months for the majority of players, and remember this is just to be able to contribute to combat these days. That's insane and poor game design. I see no reason why the trials below the 99 have to be so tedious anymore.

That would be one major way of fixing the problem. Delve weapons might be even outclassed in another update in the near future, making this R/M/E discussion flare up with even more whining. Might as well make the trials easier at this point for everyone since it's obvious they won't be as relevant anymore. This would really remove the bottleneck for the shield/harp trials as well, as ever since the cruor conversion nerf, people have just been selling these pops for money, making it a pain just to even attempt this consistently.

Just my two cents.

[Zagen]

I think this is beyond the point. If I went into a Delve NM ally and realised the leader was on SAM and using level 90 Empy for example, I'd probably only give him 5 mins to finish the alliance, and I'd certainly be keeping an eye out for another ally forming.

This is not because I'm 'elitist', far from it, but the NMs are difficult, pure and simple. It's a waste of everyone's time to go with a group that can't beat the NM.

If you think going with a Leader who has Masa 90 SAM and can't fill an alliance in 5 minutes to an event that doesn't require epic gear to beat I don't know how you think that's not elitist. Considering at this point the gimmicks are known and none of those gimmicks require X gear beyond what I'd consider decent/good gear (AF/Relic/Emp armor, TP set, WS set, anything else is a bonus)

Grasshopper - Don't WS and your chances of losing are almost 0 with decent alliance of DDs and healers
Moth - Spam Debuffs until 20~ Exuviation are used at that point stop using debuffs and kill it,
Fish - DDs come /NIN or /SAM with 3rd Eye and zerg it down. Silencing it is a bonus to help keep shadows from getting wiped by AoE spells.
Oboron - Bring a couple of WAR to use Mighty Strikes (not needed but makes it much faster) to it's face and stun Mayhem Lantern and it goes down quick.
Matmata - Bring a nuker and a tank (RDM/WAR can do both) and nuke it at least once for more than 0 damage between TP moves. After the 7th have the DD go crazy. If it lives repeat (might require letting the DDs die and reraise but 5 minute weakness will be gone before the next window opens).
Peiste - Keep it blind and it's evasion goes down as well as preventing Grim Glower and Oppressive Glare. Just a matter of dealing damage at that point.

That's strategies to get all 6 of the outside KIs. Note none of these strategies require Delve weapons or R/E/M 99s let alone updated R/E/M 75-95s.

[Kihrre]

I don't know if this has been said, but since it is apparent that 75-95 R/M/E are going to be basically old content, and the newer weapons are relatively "easy" to get, they might want to lower the trial redundancy on said weapons. If they aren't top tier unless you grind it for an upwards of 4-6 months for the majority of players, and remember this is just to be able to contribute to combat these days. That's insane and poor game design. I see no reason why the trials below the 99 have to be so tedious anymore.

That would be one major way of fixing the problem. Delve weapons might be even outclassed in another update in the near future, making this R/M/E discussion flare up with even more whining. Might as well make the trials easier at this point for everyone since it's obvious they won't be as relevant anymore. This would really remove the bottleneck for the shield/harp trials as well, as ever since the cruor conversion nerf, people have just been selling these pops for money, making it a pain just to even attempt this consistently.

Just my two cents.

The R/M/E topic will probably never end, because SE is forced to make those weapons relevant. Note that I say 'forced' because I believe it was due to the players' feedback to to point where SE had to rethink R/E/M post-expansion, and rightfully so because of the amount of effort players had made to obtain these weapons. The same thing happened when Abyssea was released with Empys; the R/M owners had said their piece.

SE was clear about the path they want to follow with Adoulin content, and with the reveal of 'content levels', this may open up the possibility of even more powerful gear in the future. Right now Delve weapons are top tier, but what about if the in future SE decides to release new weapons? Can they simply release them with a higher content level, or will they again be forced to think about R/M/E/[D] owners and make the tough decision to either lower their new content to match (thus making it another 'path'), or to upgrade old content to match the new content?

[Duelle]

also, I think Duelle might have it right when he said 'ease up on the trials'. When they first announced 1500 HMP, many of us thought that it would eventually be reduced. Now seems like the ideal time, especially since they will not be increasing the power of non-99 r/m/e, no matter what anyone would like.

I look at it more from intended time investment and expected completion. Progression in older/obsolete content does not remain the same once you start using content "tiers". Normally things play out automatically because the older content is lower level, so the player's relatively greater power makes that content quicker to clear (ex: a lv75 dungeon being cleared with little effort and risk by lv80 players).

XI rushed to 99 and had a bunch of content tossed in. As such the players do not naturally get stronger than the older content. Add to this the time spent expectancy and you have a possible issue.

For argument's sake, if an empyrean was intended to take you 4 months to complete and you had content that made that empyrean useless stat-wise, you'd normally be able to outpower the content to clear it more efficiently than when it was "current", some adjustment would be made to acquire it faster or more leisurely, or relegate it to a status item where the stats and procs are irrelevant stat-wise but the weapon looks damn cool.

Instead of going that route, SE seems to expect you to hold off on Adoulin content for the 4 months it would take you to make that empyrean (not counting gearing through abyssea and voidwatch) without what I would consider reasonable means for catching up. And that is honestly my biggest beef with the direction the devs are taking.

[Afania]

In my opinion, the argument can be summed up with two statements and their outcomes.

Level 99 R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, at the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: lv. 99 R/E/M proposed upgrades, which will require me to complete an as-of-yet unspecified task to restore my weapon to usefulness.

Lower level R/E/M holders: "I spent a significant amount of time creating a weapon. When I created it, I knew it would lie somewhere on a contiuum of weapon power - in my case, close to (but not at) the top. Delve weapons have made my weapon useless. I have therefore wasted my time. I would like this to be fixed."

Result: I must make a very significant expenditure of time and money before completing the same as-of-yet unspecified task to create a more powerful weapon. There is no option to restore my weapon to its old level of usefulness, which was my original requirement.

The compaints made by level 99 R/E/M holders can just as legitimately be made by those that hold lower tier weapons. No-one wants to lose the work they put into their weapons, which in all cases is significant - just to varying degrees. I think denying <lv99 weapon users the ability to restore their weapons to their original level of usefulness is simply unjustifiable. They made their <lv99 weapon knowing what they would get - something good, but not exceptional. SE has taken that away from them, and they have a right to want their weapon restored.

Weapon users with <lv99 weapons wouldn't get anything "free" from this adjustment - at least not anything more than lv99 weapon users will. They will still end up with an inferior weapon. However, they will end up with a weapon that is "as inferior" as they originally intended - which is the only reasonable outcome.

I disagree, the way you say it sounds like lv 85~95 weapons are different from lv 99, but in fact they're not.

The one who made lv 85~95 weapons already know lv 85~95 isn't the end. Even if you make lv 85~90 in Abyssea era, you should already guessed that one day your lv 85 90 weapon would get a new trial.

Further more, killing lv 99 R/E/M means this game no longer has R/E/M. Which is one of the main reason why everyone is against this idea. If delve 30k weapon(which takes 1~2 days to get if you play more than avg player) is better than 99 R/E/M, then there's no reason to make them, thus one of FFXI's coolest concept is dead.

But keeping 85~95 as it is, and boost lv 99 R/E/M means R/E/M are still use-able. The legendary weapon concept still exist.

Players rant about lv 99 R/E/M isn't just about "I do this for nothing, boost it", but also because the emotional attachment, and I think emotional attachment should be lv 99 only. By your logic, if a player lv NIN during abyssea because NIN was useful, shouldn't he ask SE to boost NIN or give every NM NIN proc too, just because he leveled NIN for nothing after Abyssea/VW era ended?