Trials of the Magians and casual players.

[Gippo]

the new casual is gil farming for AH crafted gear because the other stuff isn't worth the effort if you don't already have it.

Get abyssea +2 gear. can do with a PT.

Then do Reives - buy gear at peacekeepers. Some is really good man.

Then do Delve NM's.

Some of the gear mentioned, like NNI and Salvage is nice, but not necessary to do it.

Another tip - get 100k bayld, enter a wildskeeper reive when you see a shout. Kill it and get the KI. Then, what you do, you fight the shard NM's inside the fracture - 45 minute time limit instead of 20min.
(You need the KI to "sponsor" the run, so either get the KI, or get a friend that has it and skip the WK Reive)

[Elphy]

There has to be some differences in gear and accessibility to content.

What casual gamers do not realize is that if a gaming company does not offer different levels to the game they cannot hold a player base and therefore cannot keep going. Casuals by design never stay with a game long and the hardcore players will abandon a game quickly if they run out of content to complete.

They allow everyone a fair shot at all the content and gear, however you need to put the time into it. There is nothing restricting you from doing any content in the game or getting any piece of gear except your own personal schedule. But not everyone's schedules are the same.

If a game completely caters to the casual it has no hardcore base because there is nothing for them to do. But if a game puts layers to it the casuals and the hardcore will always have something to do, which creates a larger player base overall and more revenue for the company. Yes it may take years sometimes for the casual players to catch up but it is an mmo which is meant for long-term playability. There are also always like minded ppl or ppl on your schedule. You just need to find them. Create a few posts on one of the myriad of fan sites and see if you can form or join a group. I did it with nyzul/salvage/dyna/assault back in the day since my schedule doesn't really coincide with peak times and it worked wonderfully. And this was when it took 6 months > year to get 1 job to 75 + a lot longer to fully merit it.

You get what you put into an mmo just like a non-mmo game. The difference is a non-mmo is designed to take your money > get you threw it in a reasonable time > take your money again for another game. mmo's are designed to take your money over and over again so they can get away with long long long term goals.

Casuals you need to understand that you have access to the same content and gear as everyone else, you just cannot have it right now this very minute. The hardcore players need to invest just as much time, the difference is they can do it in larger chunks. If ffxi would cater to the casual gamer only it would go down faster than it is now.

As for new players...well that's a poor game design on SE's part. The game is so top heavy and is now designed to get you up to the top so fast that the sheer lack of low-level content and any direction is what is really killing things. Not to mention the horrid design that is spell scrolls, attachments, ammo, dice and all the other incredible gil-sinks that makes starting up even more difficult. At least before we had level-restricted missions we could enjoy as we leveled.

Patience is the key to any good mmo. If you wanna stamp you foot and pull a Veruca Salt they all your doing is sinking the ship faster.

[Hawklaser]

Casuals you need to understand that you have access to the same content and gear as everyone else, you just cannot have it right now this very minute. The hardcore players need to invest just as much time, the difference is they can do it in larger chunks. If ffxi would cater to the casual gamer only it would go down faster than it is now.

As for new players...well that's a poor game design on SE's part. The game is so top heavy and is now designed to get you up to the top so fast that the sheer lack of low-level content and any direction is what is really killing things. Not to mention the horrid design that is spell scrolls, attachments, ammo, dice and all the other incredible gil-sinks that makes starting up even more difficult. At least before we had level-restricted missions we could enjoy as we leveled.

I don't think casuals have any problem with understanding the gear and content differences, the problem here is reminding me a lot of how the content for CoP went among the playerbase. Anyone who did those missions when they were still level capped know exactly how annoying it could be if you did not have a nice static for them. As anyone past them didn't really want to go back an help others with the missions, and in order to beat them needed to be pretty well set up in the first place.

That is what I see happening with the Abyssea and SoA content currently. And it hurts those that have recently came back, or are starting new until the newer crafted items get down in price because that higher gear is needed to do anything the more long term playerbase is currently doing. Which I think the goal of the magian weapons was to give those that did not have the means to create a full R/M/E weapon a means of still participating in the more current content. After all, how enjoyable is a game when all you really have access to is the older mostly dead content?

Honestly, the issue at hand here is the growing gap between those that have been at the endgame content for a while and those starting out from square one. If someone that is trying to gear up a job they enjoy hits a roadblock of not being to progress, they are more likely to find something else they enjoy than sit around waiting on shouts or shouting, which could be anything from leveling another job they think they may enjoy, to playing another game completely.

And while the Balyd gear is there to help out with getting up to speed with the new content currently, there are only a few ways to get it without being on a job capable of dealing with Tough or higher mobs consistently. So even getting the gear that is meant to help with getting up to speed, is not going to be easy for those that are not already geared, and it is only going to get worse for those that are behind when those at the top are no longer doing the earlier parts. Can look at WoG stuff to see what happens when content that needs some heavier participation goes by the wayside.

[Zagen]

Just want to chime in on this as a returning player, as been having fun with this gear struggle. Getting from 0 to 1 is very easy seeing as the cruor equip is dirt cheep on the AH and not that hard to fill in the gaps with cost effective gear. Gear from 2-4, and 6, good luck getting people to help on that stuff anymore. Been stuck trying to get some of the gear in those areas for a while. I have not really dabbled with 5 yet, as beating on a rock or root does not seem all that fun especially when some gear from the other areas seem to be more useful than most of the gear obtained via bayld, and have limited time as well.

2 I only see as a problem if you refuse to lead and run a group with what job you like (i.e. if you love BST then get the key atma you need to have a tanking pet) and build around that. People left in the game that aren't caught up are more than happy to be your sheep if you will lead them. That's the thing though you have to be willing to lead, this was true in the past for anything and is even more true now as those players with natural leading skills have built up friends they do things with or have moved on, in either case you can take over or wait to be someone else's sheep.


3 honestly can be skipped on almost every job, even before SoA VW gear had already become obsolete with the exception of a few items (obviously this depends job to job but overall many pieces where out grown).

4 for salvage the only hard part is having a group that can clear the bosses, by that I mean a competent healer and decent DDs. Plans can be farmed by a lot of different jobs and in many cases don't require TH (helps but not required). Neo Limbus is just like the boss fights just scaled up pretty much, a little more annoying but overall the same (this was sad when it was found out, as it was lazy design imo).

5 is by far the easiest to do if you're smart about it. What that means is that while a SMN could walk away from a reive with 3-4k Bayld (my lol SMN has done this clearing paths for Delve) it makes more sense to do the Coalition quests. For example Mummer's Coalition starter mission is collect a Lost Article KI from Ceizak Battlegrounds or Yahse Hunting Grounds. All you do is find the Lost Article NPC target (not on wide scan that i recall), touch it, and you have the KI. Then turn it in for 1,500/2,700/3,800 Bayld depending on how many tags you chose when you picked the mission. Also many quests reward you with Bayld for example the 2 quests involving every waypoint in each of the Adoulin zones.

Because of the options available that require 0 fighting I feel that going from 2 to 5 is more than reasonable, also the fact that much of the gear from 3 and 4 on my list isn't a major upgrade.

6 it just takes someone willing to lead 80 clear runs, do some research and you'll be able to go either with a static or shout groups. They still fill up on my server and the best part is with all the changes getting 80 clears is realistic for sub optimal setups.

Now 7 would be a nice alternative, if they were more affordable, but alas not everyone has a million plus gil to throw at a single gear slot.

I agree the prices are high but this is in part because they're new and high level synths, and the other part is there just isn't a large supply of the craft items needed. Eventually this will drop in price as it has been already.

As for 8,9, and 10, good luck on doing those on anything but a support job unless you are already decently geared.

8 actually you can do naked as long as you have the KI to access the zone. It's like Walk of Echos in that you can't be excluded as long as you have access. Obviously you have to be able to do your part in order to get enough points for a shot at the gear but that's logical and I doubt anyone has an issue with that mechanic.

9 and 10, considering this is what SE has stated will be the endgame content for a while isn't it logical that until you've gotten up to 6-7 you should be excluded?

Now, I get that different content favors different jobs, but one should not be forced to level a job they have no desire to play just to get gear for the one they do want to play. This means either via playing a support job to participate in end game stuff, or leveling one of few jobs that can solo that earlier content. Zagen, you mentioned earlier that you know what its like not being able to do content you want on a job you like. Consider being forced to do that from level 1-99, because of how hard it is to get assistance on old content now. People are already advised to level WHM first for a few reasons, one is easy Maat fight, and 2nd is can use it to gear what ever else one wants to play.

If you aren't trying to skip several steps in the game's progression you wouldn't need to level another job to participate. However depending on what job you do enjoy that may mean waiting for people who're open minded, understand your job choice still works in X event, or leading your own group. If any of those aren't options you care for you'll find yourself in the same position I was in as a 95 Apoc DRK when NNI was the new thing to do. While I got 2 100 clears on DRK I got tired of waiting for a DD slot and chose to gear my SCH to give me that as an option. At that time I didn't feel like leading groups but I found that most people who were trying to lead hadn't bothered to research things and I ended up training them, instead of training them I decided to lead a static and we got 5 more pieces from KIs and I believe 4 more drops not counting the NQ/+1/+2/+3 items. The only thing hardcore or elite of the group I formed was 5 other players willing to research and make adjustments as we learned to play together.

I don't consider myself a casual or hardcore player, partly because I do try and put in the effort to excel at the jobs I really enjoy, but never had the time to do the big endgame events. So here I am stuck not being able to really progress, because it would be easier to take a little kid to the dentist then it is to get help on non-SoA content currently. With being a returning player, I know how much reputation can mean in this game, so really don't want to be showing up to these more end game like events with the more newbish gear even if could do so.

First the honest (or as some say ass) response to this issue would be: maybe this isn't the right game to play. Okay that aside considering I still see a lot of players running around in out dated gear I find it hard to believe doing old content is hard to get done, unless you're unwilling to lead.

You may not have friends from returning I know that happens, it happened to me after taking a year break a while back. I gained new friends by shouting/joining "old" content at the time. I also built up a rep in merit parties as being a good player which helped in gaining friends who were willing to help. It takes time, I understand that but then again that has always been the case.

Now as to the arguments about seeing people shouting for groups to do seal/+2 farming, or join in a delve group that is shouting. For the first one, they likely have to resort to shouting because their linkshell(if they have one) is not helping them out with it, plus shouts I kinda see as a last resort as it has one sitting in town likely doing nothing for who knows how long. And as to the delve stuff, right now you might be able to sneak in a cruor geared non-support, but that is getting harder to do.

A majority of my seals and +2 items came from shout groups. You're living in the past when it comes to large events, the concept of large linkshells doing events exclusively has in general died off. It's not about not getting help it's just that content in general has scaled back enough to allow for interacting with people who you haven't learned their play style(s).

Delve I agree for Plasm farming but that's actually due to the mechanics restricting players wanting to lead groups. There's only a few people who shout, the reason for that is they are people willing to lead, they also have the KI to take people in, and they have done some basic research.

As to Delve KI clears I still see people shouting for them. Again if you don't prescribe to "the ends justify the means" and level a job that is appealing while still easy to gear (WHM, SCH, BLM, RDM, COR, etc.) then you're going to have to go with leading a group or buying a clear.

At the end of all this expanding TotM doesn't make a "casual player" more appealing because they never made a player more appealing when they were relevant. Think about it a second, the most powerful TotM weapons were the staves in particular the magic damage and cure potency ones. Now prior to SoA when did you ever see a shout that read to the effect of: "BLM TotM Damage Staves (Yes, Please)" or "WHM TotM Cure Potency Staff (Yes, Please)"? I never did.

[Sarick]

Get abyssea +2 gear. can do with a PT.

I have all +2 sets for MNK, DNC, RDM and I think WHM. To get this gear you need friends or players still doing the content.

Then do Reives - buy gear at peacekeepers. Some is really good man.

Really good? WTF happened to the RME stuff that's supposed to remain valid? All I see is a development of get gear trash it gear more gear trash it get more gear then after years.

This is the story of bad development. Like I said the upgrade paths for older content need rebalenced. It's like not in vocabulary that players are being pushed toward new content. WTF else is there?

The trial weapons don't continue to scale. It's like OMG the new world opened up now lets abandon the rest of the F'n game for beating on roots. Join the status quo be like every other loyal sheep. Good development has verity and keeps all content fresh without being reckless. How is this reckless? Well, like the other returning player said 4/5 the game has become abandon. Good luck finding help for anything but SoA content. Screw the other half of the player base that could funding new development.

It's like Coke when they decided to compete with pepsi. They reckless decided to change the recipe without keeping the old. What happened they lost customers! After a few months they decided to bring back classic coke. In the log run because they created formulas for both taste preferences they attracted a much larger base.

If the developer really wanted to keep the game interesting they wouldn't try to top themselves every time they add something new without balancing other older paths. Trials paths should be rebalanced and have more upgrades. Everything shouldn't revolve around the Flipp'en SoA expansion like it is now. It's tunnel vision development tat only ruins te fun of playing the game.

Then do Delve NM's.

Another event that will die in a year or too when they announce new uber gear. Casual players are sick of the F'n rat race. They are leaving fast because to much is being force fed with a jack hammer. It's not like they'd ignore the trials if they where updated.I know hard-hardcore players who still did trials. Sometimes you don't need new content it just needs updated.

Some of the gear mentioned, like NNI and Salvage is nice, but not necessary to do it.

Time sink time sink. Did you do these events?

Another tip - get 100k bayld, enter a wildskeeper reive when you see a shout. Kill it and get the KI. Then, what you do, you fight the shard NM's inside the fracture - 45 minute time limit instead of 20min.
(You need the KI to "sponsor" the run, so either get the KI, or get a friend that has it and skip the WK Reive)

Repeating the same stuff. Lets just rebalanced the game as a whole instead of pissing off people by telling them do the whats popular now stuff like everyone else or GTFO. Thats what your saying. The whole topic is about opening up trials again so people can play at their own pace. It's no wonder the gaming community labeled the FFXI community in such a harsh way. Look at the previous post from Hawklaser. It clearly shows that new comers or returning players aren't welcome unless they dedicate a portion of their lives to the pixels on FFXI.

People and developers are blind just look at the evidence.

Whats the response he got? "YOU'RE LIVING IN THE PAST." Might as well just say GTFO Noob. because that's the impression I got out of it. Join pick up groups pay for wins, Just do 80 fights LMAO. Then goes on explain how no one shouted for assistance making trial weapons. Seriously, OMG, OMG this is EXACTLY why the trial system worked! It's also the reason why it should be updated.

Just rebalanced the trials and some of the older content. That stuff worked it was attractive to everyone. Stop trying to force feed new content on everyone. Clearly everyone doesn't play the same so why continue promote that. Bring back what works and you have a WINNER. The players who are vets know damn well that most of the community only plays for #1 and has little interest in participating without some beneficial rewards.

[Teraniku]

I don't think casuals have any problem with understanding the gear and content differences, the problem here is reminding me a lot of how the content for CoP went among the playerbase. Anyone who did those missions when they were still level capped know exactly how annoying it could be if you did not have a nice static for them. As anyone past them didn't really want to go back an help others with the missions, and in order to beat them needed to be pretty well set up in the first place.

.

-Actually I helped quite a few people doing CoP after I was done. I stopped doing it because 95% of the people didn't take the time to farm weakness items, or any actual prep work before doing the missions. They just wanted me and the few others who were past it to get them through it.

[Hawklaser]

2 I only see as a problem if you refuse to lead and run a group with what job you like (i.e. if you love BST then get the key atma you need to have a tanking pet) and build around that. People left in the game that aren't caught up are more than happy to be your sheep if you will lead them. That's the thing though you have to be willing to lead, this was true in the past for anything and is even more true now as those players with natural leading skills have built up friends they do things with or have moved on, in either case you can take over or wait to be someone else's sheep.

As I mentioned earlier, I see shouts as kind of a last resort, as usually can find something else to do than camp out in one of the zones yell works in. Used to try and build groups all the time to try and level DRG pre-ToAU, but more often than not, was a better use of my time to put up a seacom and go farm some stuff for gil as still needed gear as well. So until hit a total wall on the jobs I enjoy, will be a while before I go shouting for that stuff though if I see one when am free and passing through I will go on them, as would rather be doing what I can do instead of sitting in town for long periods of time.

9 and 10, considering this is what SE has stated will be the endgame content for a while isn't it logical that until you've gotten up to 6-7 you should be excluded?

Of course it is. Not saying that cruor armor DD should be going to these, as I don't want to touch them until get to a point I consider adequately geared for them. Just getting up to that point can be tricky without help or having specific jobs leveled.

If you aren't trying to skip several steps in the game's progression you wouldn't need to level another job to participate. However depending on what job you do enjoy that may mean waiting for people who're open minded, understand your job choice still works in X event, or leading your own group. If any of those aren't options you care for you'll find yourself in the same position I was in as a 95 Apoc DRK when NNI was the new thing to do. While I got 2 100 clears on DRK I got tired of waiting for a DD slot and chose to gear my SCH to give me that as an option. At that time I didn't feel like leading groups but I found that most people who were trying to lead hadn't bothered to research things and I ended up training them, instead of training them I decided to lead a static and we got 5 more pieces from KIs and I believe 4 more drops not counting the NQ/+1/+2/+3 items. The only thing hardcore or elite of the group I formed was 5 other players willing to research and make adjustments as we learned to play together.

Not trying to skip tiers myself, was more pointing out unless one has lots of helpful friends or linkshell members, or plenty of time to waste shouting for some things with no assurance will get people you need to do whatever is needed, its not easy getting above cruor gear and some of the simpler AH weapons, unless you happened to level specific jobs first, whether or not you enjoy them is a different matter.

First the honest (or as some say ass) response to this issue would be: maybe this isn't the right game to play. Okay that aside considering I still see a lot of players running around in out dated gear I find it hard to believe doing old content is hard to get done, unless you're unwilling to lead.

This was more due to back when it took multiple alliances to do things, never really had the time where could set aside 2hrs+ consistently to do some of the older endgame events... reason I say 2hrs+ is because I know how often some people don't get preparations done in advance or key members show up late. When things take 30-40m to do, much easier to set aside time for them.

You may not have friends from returning I know that happens, it happened to me after taking a year break a while back. I gained new friends by shouting/joining "old" content at the time. I also built up a rep in merit parties as being a good player which helped in gaining friends who were willing to help. It takes time, I understand that but then again that has always been the case.

Yeah, it does take time to rebuild up contacts. Though sometimes scheduling in general is an issue, and other times, there are just some things people don't really want to help with at all.

A majority of my seals and +2 items came from shout groups. You're living in the past when it comes to large events, the concept of large linkshells doing events exclusively has in general died off. It's not about not getting help it's just that content in general has scaled back enough to allow for interacting with people who you haven't learned their play style(s).

No issue with shouting to get things done, but personally if I am sitting in town shouting, its more because I got nothing else to do or already have a little bit of help lined up. And usually have plenty of other things could be doing than sitting in town. Also never said was expecting a whole shell to help out with lower NM's and such, there are some things where it is a pain to get one or two people to help with unless it directly ties into something they need too even within a linkshell. Getting one or two people to help out within a linkshell should be relatively easy to have happen, may not happen right when you ask, but should be doable within a linkshell without many problems. Though not everyone is going to have a really helpful linkshell.


So was more pointing out the option for those that are not already geared, and lacking a good support group is pretty much Bayld gear. Though when look at several jobs the Bayld gear is not what they should be going for outside of a few equipment slots. And for some players the non-combat Bayld fetch quests will get old fast and cause them to loose interest, even more so if they appear behind obstructions that are no longer being removed when the focus shifts away from those areas. Which can lead to issues when future content leaps happen unless new semi-easy base gears keep happening, which starts to defeat the purpose of doing older content at all unless it has an irreplaceable reward like the Divine Might earrings or CoP rings currently.

-Actually I helped quite a few people doing CoP after I was done. I stopped doing it because 95% of the people didn't take the time to farm weakness items, or any actual prep work before doing the missions. They just wanted me and the few others who were past it to get them through it.

Ended up doing the first three Crags like 6 times when level caps were in place to get people up to a point where I could make progress. So there were people that would help with earlier, but they were rare for a number of reasons. More often than not, was more because they didn't want to do certain parts again. I'd still go back and do them again with the level cap in place, but many people I knew didn't want to touch them again.

[Umichi]

I'm a casual player, I could be a hardcore player (by that i mean dedicate more time to the game to get and collect gear and participate in endgame content) I enjoy being competative but i also enjoy playing at my own pace when i choose and want to. being a casual or normal player i fall in with the most likely by now minority but at one point in time majority.....

I started playing back near the begining to middle of ToAU, my first job was whm until i reach ToAU and discovered a wall.... whm's weren't really wanted for events or merits, it was either level rdm or smn newb, because no one wanted downtime during merits and bards were always maxed out for the most part (meaning they weren't available) soon after i discovered drg which has always been a favorite job of mine..... the class played well to how i wnated to play and i took it from there.... alot of people advised me not to become a drg as i wouldnt get many invites... but my friends encouraged me to play it and ignore the elitests.... since then that's what i do.

I spent 3 years aquiring my rajas ring due to the limitations placed upon me of my own choosing because i love drg so much I refused to level other jobs just for the sake of completing the missions( and ps i have tried them i don't enjoy how they play, most of my jobs are level 30 now), because forcing myself to do things in a game i play to i equally love whm but people force me to come to events as whm over drg, so i don't ever use or expose my whm to the public very often and when i do use it, it's generally with friends or people i can trust who won't abuse me as a person just for some heals...

I spent one year leveling 1-75 i remember going to valkurm beach all the time when i was leveling there and i remember the chaos of seeing parties going down left and right shouts for raises and call for helps, i also remember practicing with other newbies using ws and skillchains

I remember hitting 75 and still not having most of my missions done because no one outside of my ls were interested in doing them but hey they were busy because back then doing endgame trying to keep their edge against the hordes of monsters SE were releasing.

Endgame content was meant for hardcore, dedicated people, and for people who are looking for challenges that are team based

Casuals/normal players are looking for content that allows them to continually progress with other like minded people but also allows them to stay just powerful enough that if they choose to they can jump up to new content more challenging content at their choosing. Abyssea did the trick but SE added in gimmicks that made it so you need people to help you unless your a hardcore player or a player who can tolerate leveling many multiple jobs or enjoy it, or dual boxing.... which is against the rules and goes against the spirit of the game

SE also has encouraged a zerg mentality in this game and it wasn't really their fault, but because they started exposing info about the game people started using maths and thus people started using probability instead of hard stats and game mechanics to determine whats best thusly allowing them to put a number on things and allowing the community to create the behavior of bring x class or gtfo.......... SE might of created the game but SE also stressed this game was made around the community. If the community is filled with elitests and people who are hardcore or both and only those people bother posting things relevant to gear and such ten you can expect SE to start tailoring their game around the group thats giving them the most pressure......

IMHO how i see it is both Casuals/norms and hardcore players are starving for content that challenges them but both have very different perspectives on how the gaming world functions.

[Umichi]

oh did i mention the hours and hours of rigours and menotonous leveling and merit grinding i had to do just to even be on par with some players and that was with a slower system....



oh also i've been playing for 5ish years on and off near the end, i finally got a drop that made me money with the release of SoA and am currently halfway to a stage three relic (I'm so excited to aquire gungnir)

[Kormak]

except you forgot one thing you're hypothetically telling me to go level a job or jobs that I may or may not like for the sake of getting a weapon for a job I enjoy...... Sarick has it spot on, to many selfish players in this game I'm tired of seeing so many people telling me I have to do something against my will in this game because it's for the better or something similar to this line..

Compromise is part of the game >_>

Did I want a BLM, WHM or even a COR which I have an empy for? No.

I levelled them so that I, for the first 2 listed, could join parties for my AF3 armour seals and COR for VW, NNI, Meebles ect...

I always wanted to be a DRK but what is DRK good for in abyssea? nothing that cannot be done better by another job eg. WAR for red !! and BLM for yellow. And it isn't really useful in solo / duo without great gear and/or the other player a support role.

If you think that you can say "I want to be a DRG and go a DRG to everything regardless of what is needed" then no wonder you get nothing done in the 30min-2 hours you play. (DRG was just an example before you say...)


TL: DR - Without compromise you will never get anywhere, not only in this game but with many things in rl also.
/rant