While adjusting REMC - Gimped offhanding while dual wielding

[Return1]

DPS is DPS no matter how you cut it. Burtgang is a slow weapon that needs a crappy WS, at 300tp, to get a, non-refreshable, aftermath.

Excalibur has better DPS. Faster WS, more WS, ODD proc that doesn't require aftermath, and a fairly potent added effect. It looks to be the best sword in the game depending on how delve boss weapons turn out.

That said, Burtgang is pretty broken for tanking now, post tanking adjustments.

[Demon6324236]

DPS is DPS no matter how you cut it. Burtgang is a slow weapon that needs a crappy WS, at 300tp, to get a, non-refreshable, aftermath.

Excalibur has better DPS. Faster WS, more WS, ODD proc that doesn't require aftermath, and a fairly potent added effect. It looks to be the best sword in the game depending on how delve boss weapons turn out.

That said, Burtgang is pretty broken for tanking now, post tanking adjustments.

Yes but thats only 1 of 3 swords, 1 of 20 weapons in total, the other 19 do not suffer that fatal flaw in DPS, and as you said, its broken for tanking, which is and was its best use. The whole point I was making is that your example goes by the least useful of weapons, even if it is the only example of Mythics we were given, where as many other combos will be amazing for damage and do not have those short comings. Basically I agree when it comes to PLD, Excalibur will remain its best DD option, but its because Burtgang is doomed with a flawed WS, where as most others are not so unlucky, so they will often be able to get more DPS with a Mythic, as I said before, RDM Mythic stands to be RDM's best option post update if it has around 120DMG, which to me seems reasonably likely. Without Emp WSs Mythics are very situational because they lack a great WS for most of the best ones, like Lib, Conq, and Koga, but with them getting Relic and Emp WSs rather than simply their own and the merit WSs they have the potential to be the best, so far as I know Koga's greatest setback was no Fudo/Kaiten like R & E have, Conq has no Ukko's, Lib has no access to the best Scythe skill, all of that is solved with their plans so far as I know except potentially the Relic WSs, since they have not confirmed that since they changed their plans to include updating RMEs themselves.

[Longshot]

1-handers also need a damage boost in general.

NIN is pretty useless now as it can't tank any of the new stuff. There are no steal pools for mobs in Adoulin and drops are 100% in Reives and Fractures so steal and TH are useless. Yet 1-handers remain FAR behind in damage potential.

As I posted in another thread, the highest damage dagger available in the game has 108 damage and presumably drops from a Delve boss. Yet I can buy a 145 damage BULLET off from the AH right now.

Please consider making the stats on an offhand R/M/E active and also boosting the base damage of 1-hand R/M/E.

[Return1]

All of the mythics will be behind the relics. Mythics are, in general, garbage weapons without AM up, and most Mythic WSs are garbage. So unless you're SAM or DRG your mythic is probably not going to be the best option.

RDM would still be far better suited using CDC on Excalibur. RDM is attack starved and already poor at building TP so dropping 40 attack and saving up 300tp to use a subpar WS is not ideal for overall damage. Again the free ODD and added effect will outdo anything Murg is gonna put out.

WAR is going to be better off with Bravura in most cases as well. Once again triggering AM is a weakness. Missing out on free ODD, a crapton of ACC, and giving up 3 Ukko's Fury to use a 300 TP King's Justice to trigger AM is not the way to go about DDing.

Liberator suffers the same. Apocalypse will have a big advantage stats wise, ODD, and the haste AM means less haste needed so more ACC/ATK/STR/DEX gear which is a big deal at new events. On top of that, Ragnarok should still handily beat both for pure damage.

Ryu was already great, and the Emp WS sucks. Nothing new there.

Kogarasamaru is the big winner here. SAM is probably the least hurt by the TP holding just because the speed at which they build it, and Meditate lining up pretty well with the AM duration. It gets a nice new WS to add to its arsenal with no real downside.

The only argument you could make is 2 handed mythics being better Zerg weapons when you can open with 300tp.

[Byrth]

I like this idea and have suggested it in every RME adjustments thread. I don't think it would be broken. I'm okay with allowing WS access from the sub hand. 99 Empyreans are already frequently the best 1H offhands, so it doesn't really raise the bar as much as allowing us to benefit from jumping it.


As far as the damage stuff above:

1) Murgleis has higher DPS than Vajra, Terpsichore, Carnwenhan, Burtgang, Yagrush, and (barely) Aymur. It has lower DPS than either of the H2H weapons, even if you calculate them without Martial Arts traits. Kenkonken has 30% higher DPS than Murgleis even if you somehow remove native Martial Arts traits from PUP. Glanzfaust is 22% higher if you somehow remove native Martial Arts traits from MNK.

2) The post-patch hierarchy answer (assuming the sword examples were accurate) is:
* Mythics will be the best if you can maintain AM3.
* Relics are the best if you can't maintain Mythic AM3 and can wear them.
* Empyreans are the best if you can't maintain Mythic AM3 and can't wear a Relic.
You would need to be continuously fighting to meet the conditions for Mythic AM3 to be viable (either a hard NM or many consecutive monsters). Currently we either kill hard NMs or many consecutive monsters, so Mythics will be the best for every job unless SE dramatically changes the game with a Delve 2.0 event.

[ManaKing]

I like this idea and have suggested it in every RME adjustments thread. I don't think it would be broken. I'm okay with allowing WS access from the sub hand. 99 Empyreans are already frequently the best 1H offhands, so it doesn't really raise the bar as much as allowing us to benefit from jumping it.


As far as the damage stuff above:

1) Murgleis has higher DPS than Vajra, Terpsichore, Carnwenhan, Burtgang, Yagrush, and (barely) Aymur. It has lower DPS than either of the H2H weapons, even if you calculate them without Martial Arts traits. Kenkonken has 30% higher DPS than Murgleis even if you somehow remove native Martial Arts traits from PUP. Glanzfaust is 22% higher if you somehow remove native Martial Arts traits from MNK.

Forgot all about H2H as far as 1H because we were talking about offhands.

2) The post-patch hierarchy answer (assuming the sword examples were accurate) is:
* Mythics will be the best if you can maintain AM3.
* Relics are the best if you can't maintain Mythic AM3 and can wear them.
* Empyreans are the best if you can't maintain Mythic AM3 and can't wear a Relic.
You would need to be continuously fighting to meet the conditions for Mythic AM3 to be viable (either a hard NM or many consecutive monsters). Currently we either kill hard NMs or many consecutive monsters, so Mythics will be the best for every job unless SE dramatically changes the game with a Delve 2.0 event.

I can't see it any other way.

RDM would still be far better suited using CDC on Excalibur. RDM is attack starved and already poor at building TP so dropping 40 attack and saving up 300tp to use a subpar WS is not ideal for overall damage. Again the free ODD and added effect will outdo anything Murg is gonna put out.

I can't agree with that only because CDC, like most crit based WSs have very poor showings in Adoulin. Death Blossom with +30% DMG would hit for more than CDC even without AM3 up because it's STR and MND instead of DEX. We have gear for DB, not for CDC.

While you might have similar total DPS with an Excalibur, you'd get more utility for the mage side of your job because of the M.ACC on the sword. You don't lose out to the additional affect procs from Excal by much because you have enspells and with AM3 up, you would get more out of Enspells.

I don't disagree that against multiple mobs, Excalibur will pull ahead, but against an extended boss fight (which you are more than welcome to argue that RDMs should be fighting regardless) I would go with the Murgleis and Death Blossom.

[Return1]

I won't question RDM's place in meleeing since you're talking from an understood rdm melee.

If there's MACC on Murg, you can't be sure RDM will get ACC/ATK instead of MACC buffs. On any long drawn out battle, that 60 attack, added effect, and ODD will pull far ahead. On anything that big ACC and ATK are RDMs biggest hindrances. ACC on CDC should be better than Death Blossom by virtue of the DEX mod and the DEX gear you should stack. Crits also help RDM's poor pDIF. RDM's slow TP gain makes the AM buildup like pulling teeth as well.

[Demon6324236]

RDM would still be far better suited using CDC on Excalibur. RDM is attack starved and already poor at building TP so dropping 40 attack and saving up 300tp to use a subpar WS is not ideal for overall damage. Again the free ODD and added effect will outdo anything Murg is gonna put out.

The RDM spreadsheet seems to disagree on almost any mob, including new ones, but you have to keep in mind the idea of taking out some DA/TA in WS and TP in exchange for some more Attack items like Vespid Mantle, so they do not interfere with your AM3 while its up.

If there's MACC on Murg, you can't be sure RDM will get ACC/ATK instead of MACC buffs. On any long drawn out battle, that 60 attack, added effect, and ODD will pull far ahead. On anything that big ACC and ATK are RDMs biggest hindrances. ACC on CDC should be better than Death Blossom by virtue of the DEX mod and the DEX gear you should stack. Crits also help RDM's poor pDIF. RDM's slow TP gain makes the AM buildup like pulling teeth as well.

If they give it Magic Accuracy instead of the 20 Attack and Accuracy that I assume we are getting then Excalibur would be the top weapon, yes. As for stacking DEX, the sad thing about RDM melee gear is that it is nearly impossible for us to do that in any respectable amount, this is our best CDC set without Mythic & AM3 up. If we had better gear I would agree that CDC would be our better option, and in all honesty with Mythic+AM3 it is, but unless I am wrong right now with Excalibur our best WS is Req on low defense targets and KoR on high defense targets thanks to its STR mod, once CDC is usable on Excalibur things may change to allow CDC on high defense mobs, not exactly sure about that one.

[Return1]

Well, first of all, you can spreadsheet properly unless you've found Murgleis's stats already or am I missing something.

You should probably be single wielding for more ODD and added proc, WAR for TP Fencer, Berserk, Aggressor, Warcry, DA. KotR should beat Death Blossom in every conceivable situation as it gets a higher Weapon Skill +% and the Huge ACC bonus on first hits favors Single hit WSes.

On anything with a respectable hit rate, CDC should pull ahead. Your crit rate should be decent (>40%). The relatively massive boost to a RDM's pDIF would be hard to beat on anything that lasts a while.

So to sum it up. In any situation, Death Blossom is not your best WS. For Murg to even be mentioned you have be doing 1 300TP DB instead of 3 superior WSs to trigger AM. Murg's stats are currently undefined but known to be inferior.

[Glamdring]

I honestly don't think may will bitch if you are DW 2 fully upgraded relics. A few jealousy whines, sure, but if you did a full relic and a full magian, go for it.

Now, a legitimate bitch would be a rune or a geo who can't DW a relic, a mythic or an empy because they can't use ANY of them... and there is no "give it time", that's just BS. they had the time to throw rune on a Lockheart in time for the expansion, they had to know there would be 99 runes the day of the expansion, but they can't add us to end game weapons? to quote South Park, "Shenanigans!"