Trials of the Magians and casual players.

[Gippo]

Stop bellyaching. Shit's not hard.

Step 1. Level whm or brd if applicable
Step 2. Buy Seekers of Adoulin if necessary.
Step 3. Join the first shout you see for a T4/T5 to get KI
Step 4. Sing or cure.
Step 5. Wait for someone to shout for a delve farming pt.
Step 6. Sing or cure.
Step 7. Get 30,000 points
Step 8. Buy a weapon you like
Step 9. Level that job.
Step 10. Forget you cared about Magian Trials.

[Umichi]

Stop bellyaching. Shit's not hard.

Step 1. Level whm or brd if applicable
Step 2. Buy Seekers of Adoulin if necessary.
Step 3. Join the first shout you see for a T4/T5 to get KI
Step 4. Sing or cure.
Step 5. Wait for someone to shout for a delve farming pt.
Step 6. Sing or cure.
Step 7. Get 30,000 points
Step 8. Buy a weapon you like
Step 9. Level that job.
Step 10. Forget you cared about Magian Trials.

except you forgot one thing you're hypothetically telling me to go level a job or jobs that I may or may not like for the sake of getting a weapon for a job I enjoy...... Sarick has it spot on, to many selfish players in this game I'm tired of seeing so many people telling me I have to do something against my will in this game because it's for the better or something similar to this line..


This game is broken, but it's not the developers fault or coding sadly.

[Zagen]

except you forgot one thing you're hypothetically telling me to go level a job or jobs that I may or may not like for the sake of getting a weapon for a job I enjoy...... Sarick has it spot on, to many selfish players in this game I'm tired of seeing so many people telling me I have to do something against my will in this game because it's for the better or something similar to this line..


This game is broken, but it's not the developers fault or coding sadly.

Ok new set of steps for those who don't believe in "the ends justify the means" type of logic.

Step 1: Stay on whatever job you want.
Step 2: Research T4/5 Delve NMs (lots of info already out there about the gimmicks and setups on how to take them down).
Step 3: Shout for a group based on research done in Step 2.
Step 4: Go fight said monster for the relevant KI.
Step 5: Research Delve Fracture farming (not much to learn pretty much merit style fighting with a PLD or 2 holding NMs.
Step 6: Build your Delve Weapons.

Congrats you now have the new time sink weapons that are even easier to make than TotM because you don't have to wait for NMs to spawn/respawn (yay pop/instance NMs for the KIs), you don't have to wait for the right time of day (in game), and you definitely don't have to wait for the right of the year (in game) to ensure plentiful weather you want. Don't even have to kill hundreds to thousands of monsters as you could in theory just by all your airlixirs/plasm (via eating pop items).

Repeat the steps above with T1,2, or 3 Delve NMs and you'll also unlock the Delve armors.

The game is broken because people who don't want to conform to the player established "cookie cutter" setups are too damn lazy to lead so they avoid conformity and increase diversity.

[Sarick]

Ok new set of steps for those who don't believe in "the ends justify the means" type of logic.

Step 1: Stay on whatever job you want.
Step 2: Research T4/5 Delve NMs (lots of info already out there about the gimmicks and setups on how to take them down).
Step 3: Shout for a group based on research done in Step 2.
Step 4: Go fight said monster for the relevant KI.
Step 5: Research Delve Fracture farming (not much to learn pretty much merit style fighting with a PLD or 2 holding NMs.
Step 6: Build your Delve Weapons.


Repeat the steps above with T1,2, or 3 Delve NMs and you'll also unlock the Delve armors.

The game is broken because people who don't want to conform to the player established "cookie cutter" setups are too damn lazy to lead so they avoid conformity and increase diversity.

No you are hardcore, the stuff people are asking about is for casual. Hardcore people don't give a squats arse for players that want to advance in their own way. Just reading your comment proves my point. You explaining in detail how to be a hardcore player. It then follows up by proving my point that hardcore players don't give a crap. You think that people are lazy. You think things are easy. In your oppion if they follow a the HARDCORE STRATEGY they can get the best crap.

Well, looks like you nailed it. Your the poster child for the exact attitude I'm talking about. You have the time, leadership (ability to make good groups) and planning (hardcore strategy) to reach those goals. In your opinion everyone who plays these games has the same privileged attributes as yourself. The underdogs who don't invest dedication into a GAME aren't doing ENOUGH to become decent pixels.

1. Casual players log on for a few hours to relax then quit. When was the last time an alliance of players gathered in less then 30 min?

2. Casual players don't create large parties/alliances they join them or do low man stuff with friends.

3. The new stuff you need pure man power to really get ahead. To get ahead you also need good gear, expert skill and a some reputation as a player. Casual players don't have any of this crap. In fact it's because of this lack of crap the hardcore don't even want these players on their team. They even don't want to join them if they shout for help. That's how bad it is for some players. Your strategy is nothing less then stop being casual if you want included in anything fun.

The trails could be done solo on the players own time. Not have to deal with the groups that require lavish setups to get a party slot. The mog trials had something unique about it that when multiple players where hunting something like the elemental weapons players where ask to team up not as a requirement but for mutual gain. People didn't care unless someone wanted to totally leech. It wasn't a requirement to be hardcore people just had fun achieving a mutual goal.

People who shout for alliances most do so for personal gain. Unlike people running into each other and teaming up in a frendly setting they choose who when, what etc these players are. From your perspective everything you listed is easy prey. It's obvious you can't fathom the life of a real casual player. In your eyes anyone who isn't hardcore is just F'lippn lazy. Based on the comments made by a few of these post it just proves how disassociated some core players are with the casual players.

THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!

The Mog trials where for casuals because most of them could be completed without large groups. Players could create a weapon in a few days on their own time. SURE there where things like weather was a minor time sync sink (setback). These things piled in comparison to the monopoly the hardcore players have on end game events. If they wanted to build a weapon they didn't need to wait in town for shouts only to be excluded from some guy that says (do you have X weapon or X job and uber gear) nvm sorry we are full.

Hardcore players simply can't fathom the difference of game play for casual players. The developers also lost track of this play style when they left older content like mog trails behind. The only way to get decent gear from this point on is to deal with the hardcore aspect. I'm not saying the BEST gear I'm saying decent. When you look at the stat differences of casual trial weapons vs dedicated (hardcore) player weapons they are no longer a 10%-20% difference. We now have weapons that are double and triple the strength of previous uber gear!

The developer proposed a way to increase the power or R/M/E stuff at the cost of making it slightly weaker but requiring a near full completion (which isn't worth it) to upgrade. Having this cancer in the game creates a dilemma for mog trial weapons. You can't have the mog trail weapons surpass the R/M/E stats that'd be wrong! It'd infurate me and others who build those weapons if easy mode weapons where created to surpass them.

The whole GEAR path was a mistake! When new weapons where created that surpassed uber gear from the past it placed an invisible cap on the trial weapons. The mog trial weapon/armor stats are bottle necked by the older hardcore RME weapons. These weapons are supposed to superceed them in relevance. The problem that exist is a result of poor development planning.

The trial weapons can't be upgraded to decent because the RME gear is vastly inferior to the new gear. Since the old RME gear can't be upgraded without significant resources/time/effort it holds back the casual versions being upgraded to decent.

What we have is a check-mate development blunder that punishes casual players. The OLD RME weapons to be comparable need upgraded with a lot of blood sweat and tears. The trial mog weapons that are inferior to RME weapons (super pathetic) simply can't outrank the non-upgraded RME versions without pissing everyone off who made RME versions.

[Zagen]

1. Casaul players log on for a few hours to relax then quit. When was the last time an alliance of players gathered in less then 30 min?

Why are you playing a game that you can't get anything done in exactly 30 minutes (maybe crafting if it's all AH stuff) and in many cases not even in 1 hour. Heck TotM itself requires you to be on at set times as I previously pointed out.

2. Casual players don't create large parties/alliences they join them or do low man stuff with friends.

Why not level a job that appeals to the people leading events or appeals to low man instead? You know what my favorite job in the game is that still surprises me the most is? PUP. Do you know how wanted for any event a PUP is? It's not. Mine is still geared well.

Casual players don't play MMORPGs, stop using that title as an excuse. If you're truly casual get back to Candy Crush, Angry Birds, etc. Those are casual games. This isn't about being elitist this is about being a realist, people who enjoy those games (you know casual gamers) don't in general dive into the MMORPG genre because of how much more effort is required on the player's part to make the game enjoyable.

3. The new stuff you need a man power to really get ahead. To get ahead you need good gear, expert skill and a reputation as a player. Casual players don't have any of this crap.

This weekend I just did T1 Morimar Basalt Fields with my LS (Volatile Matamata), I could have gone with other people making the shouts but after I looked into the fight I realized it would be a great introduction to Delve for the people in my LS who've been scared of the new content for one reason or another.

Of the group 2 out of the 4 MNKs (AF+1 body made an appearance) were geared to what "hardcore" players would consider decent to well, of our 3 WHMs only 1 was geared well the others are far from Cure Potency Cap let alone geared decently in other aspects relevant to WHM. Our BRD didn't even bring a Madrigal instrument because up until SoA it was a spell never used.

In other words our rag tag band of "gimps" as the elitists would say, cleared a Delve monster in 7~8 minutes all because someone took the time to research.

This same group maybe a few changes will also be attempting to take on the other Delve NMs for clears. Some we'll bother to get 18 people for others well try with just the LS and maybe friends who're interested.

The Trails could be done SOLO on the players own time. Not have to deal with the groups that require lavish setups to get a party slot. From your perspective everything you listed is easy prey. It's obvious you can't fathom the life of a real casual player. In your eyes anyone who isdn't hardcore is just F'lippn lazy. Based on the comments made by a few of these post it just proves how disassociated some core players are with the casual players.

This is partially true, the trials could be done solo however not "on the player's own time". Remember you have to deal with NM respawn times, day of the week, time of the year for weather. TotM are actually the most annoying for me than anything else in the game because of the restrictions.

Again there are no casual players in a MMORPG, there are players with large play time windows and small play time windows. The fact you were able to learn the controls, the battle system, the action house system, the trade system, basic economics of the game, the proc system, NM systems, and so on means you're a "hardcore gamer".

The Mog trials where for casuals because most of them could be completed without large groups. Players could create a weapon in a few days on their own time. SURE there where things like weather was a minor time sync (setback). These things piled in comparison to the monopoly the hardcore players have on end game events. If they wanted to build a weapon they didn't need to wait in town for shouts only to be excluded from some guy that says (do you have X weapon or X job and uber gear) nvm sorry we are full.

TIME SINK you're not synchronizing time you're draining time.

TotM pale in comparison because you don't have a sought after job or refuse to research and lead a group. By the way if you don't research how the hell did you figure out where to get weather kills for your trials?

WHM, BRD, GEO (to be fair few know how good a GEO can be atm), COR, SCH are jobs that at best require leveled skills. Since you have TotM I'd include BLM into the mix here too. Keeping with the fact it can be geared easily then THF fits here too though that's more for Fracture farming.

My COR has an 85 Armageddon did you know when I ask to join a group I've said "Armageddon COR" and "COR", I've never been rejected because that job is all about the rolls they don't even care about the gear in most situations, I do but the leaders don't. I've even gone BRD without Relic or Emp, and no one cared beyond having capped skill for buffs.

Hardcore players simply can't fathom the difference of game play for casual players. The developers also lost track of this play style when they left older content like mog trails behind. The only way to get decent gear from this point on is to deal with the hardcore aspect. I'm not saying the BEST gear I'm saying decent. When you look at the stat differences of casual trial weapons vs dedicated (hardcore) player weapons they are no longer a 10%-20% difference. We now have weapons that are double and triple the strength of previous uber gear!

Again you're not casual you just have less play time and/or dedication to the game. All of these weapons and gear (except for the Delve bosses for now) are attainable by anyone who's willing to look beyond "I wanna solo in a MMO" or "I only wanna play X job but refuse to lead".

[Sarick]

Why are you playing a game that you can't get anything done in exactly 30 minutes (maybe crafting if it's all AH stuff) and in many cases not even in 1 hour. Heck TotM itself requires you to be on at set times as I previously pointed out.

Casual players don't play MMORPGs, stop using that title as an excuse. If you're truly casual get back to Candy Crush, Angry Birds, etc. Those are casual games. This isn't about being elitist this is about being a realist, people who enjoy those games (you know casual gamers) don't in general dive into the MMORPG genre because of how much more effort is required on the player's part to make the game enjoyable.

Again you're not casual you just have less play time and/or dedication to the game. All of these weapons and gear (except for the Delve bosses for now) are attainable by anyone who's willing to look beyond "I wanna solo in a MMO" or "I only wanna play X job but refuse to lead".

Do you look dedicated? Your profile

Every job is LVL 99 EXCEPT GEO and you have 3 relics. You are also ranked 74 on a server. Other then your craft skills (the stuff you can solo skill up) you seem to be rather dedicated. Err. hardcore, case and point..

Do I look hardcore? My profile

Again you don't get it. You can't fathom the difference. You're also wrong about casuals not playing MMORPGS. The term casual is more or less people who play more for fun. You can't contemplate the simple aspect that unless you have decent or to extreme amount of dedication and/or resources you'll be left out in most events.

These casual players can't play for fun if the rewards are geared towards hardcore players. The majority of core players only associate with outer players of the same dedication and caliber. When a casual player logs on to have fun they're vastly interferer and often left out. The game is a social community only for the select few that dedicate themselves.

The only thing you're proving each time you respond is how much you don't understand and/or how much you want to direct others towards anti-casuial play styles.

Wanna see how hardcore you are? You're so dedicated you even visit these official forums to make comments about casual content. I was once hardcore until I grew out of the game. I'm now merely interested in watching the direction things are going. They don't seem to be headed in the best direction IMHO.

Most of the fun times are gone. The casual players are leaving because the games direction is more of a work/job environment then entertainment. I explained why trial weapons are bottle necked. I explained what casuals are and why the adjustments, poor design implementations push content toward one type of play style.

What was your response? I, I, I did this, This is how you need to play the game, it's easy, people are lazy and no one who plays this an MMO is casual. Well, for the last part there might be a reason. It's because people like you exist that think casuals don't belong in MMORPGS. No doubt you'll want to stand against the casual players because it's not how YOU play the game.

There needs to be two routes in any game to be successful. It's like gaming console companies that make games. All games are to hard you lose the casual market if they are to easy you lose the hardcore market. If you have developed for both types you benefit from each market.

I recently quit a game because it just became to frustrating It was better to just watch someone else play through the game then deal with playing it. The player I watched on youtube was elite had busted their arse for superior gear and barely made it past most boss fights. In fact they died an recorded the game over once. This player worked for bad ass gear that barely made them capible of winning and me with the inferior geared armor wouldn't have a chance.

Basically the best gear I could find was level 38 in for my 50+ charicters game without spending massive amounts of time to get through the game for extremely rare gear. I just wanted to have fun and see the story unfold. Poor balance no option to have fun just frustration.

Look at the game Tales of Graces F. It has setting on it that allow the player to go through the game on easy mode and hard mode. Each had it's benefits but It was never forced on a player to only play hardcore or too easy.

The point is that the trial weapons allowed for that play style now that they're super inferior they aren't even worth keeping. Unless these players convert to a different play style they'll be left out for almost everything but the weekly promotional seasonal events. Frankly this is why people quit and why you are under the impression that casuals don't play. It's sad, really sad how out of touch most players are.

[Zagen]

I've realized where the disconnect is, you want to play the game in a way it isn't intended to be played and still feel satisfied at the end of the day. There's really no arguing with that mentality so I'm done.

Edit:

Do you look dedicated? Your profile

Every job is LVL 99 EXCEPT GEO and you have 3 relics. You are also ranked 74 on a server. Other then your craft skills (the stuff you can solo skill up) you seem to be rather dedicated. Err. hardcore, case and point..

Fell cleave leveled jobs. Apocalypse, Almace, and Armageddon totally make me hardcore I mean it's not like those can all be soloed or duoed with a friend... Oh wait I did solo and duo those with a friend, yeah I'm hardcore.

[xiozen]

except you forgot one thing you're hypothetically telling me to go level a job or jobs that I may or may not like for the sake of getting a weapon for a job I enjoy...... Sarick has it spot on, to many selfish players in this game I'm tired of seeing so many people telling me I have to do something against my will in this game because it's for the better or something similar to this line..


This game is broken, but it's not the developers fault or coding sadly.

Sorry but it is the developers fault that the game is in the condition its in.

The Developer's created the ToTM system in the first place... the Developers promoted the ToTM system... the Developers (at the time of implementation) repeatedly suggested they would utilize the ToTM system as a way to further enhance the effectiveness of weapons/equipment etc.... so broken or not, the development team is where this begins... as far as the playerbase is concerned... "We" voiced our opinions based on what was implemented/proposed so in effect, even though it started with the Development team, it is a shared effort due to many of the changes that were implemented were based on player feedback.

I completely agree with this post... regardless of the direction the producer wishes to take Adoulin content, releasing extremely strong weapons (comparative to those weapons available via the ToTM system) without taking into account the impact such weapons would have on older content is... negligent...

And its not so much as saying the new content is breaking the game (even though it is) since older content's level of difficulty makes the new weapons and armor comparatively overpowered for its utilization.

More thought should have been given to this expansion prior to it going live... look at all the issues surfacing that have yet to be addressed... this is not World of Warcraft. Geesh!

[Sarick]

Sorry but it is the developers fault that the game is in the condition its in.

~~~~

I completely agree with this post... regardless of the direction the producer wishes to take Adoulin content, releasing extremely strong weapons (comparative to those weapons available via the ToTM system) without taking into account the impact such weapons would have on older content is... negligent...

And its not so much as saying the new content is breaking the game (even though it is) since older content's level of difficulty makes the new weapons and armor comparatively overpowered for its utilization.

More thought should have been given to this expansion prior to it going live... look at all the issues surfacing that have yet to be addressed... this is not World of Warcraft. Geesh!

The only way to fix the the trials at this point is without nerfing the new gear is to re-balance RME to be comparable to the new content at each stage of the weapons advancement 75,80,85,90 and 95 stages. The current suggested fix only makes fully upgraded versions have potential everything else is just fodder.

The lower tier versions don't gain any benefit from the RME suggested patch. In essence they're total trash unless they're 99 versions. If you want these you'll need to work your ass off harder to get sub-par versions. It's so unbalanced and poorly thought out that it'd be easier to work on the new gear and trash the old RME stuff. It's the oxymoron upgrade path.

Unfortunately, if the old RME get upgraded they'll break the game more in other parts of the game where older content is involved. It dosn't really matter if these where rebalanced because the new content will eventually ruin that balance anyway once players start getting newer uber gear.

All bad.

[Kormak]

except you forgot one thing you're hypothetically telling me to go level a job or jobs that I may or may not like for the sake of getting a weapon for a job I enjoy...... Sarick has it spot on, to many selfish players in this game I'm tired of seeing so many people telling me I have to do something against my will in this game because it's for the better or something similar to this line..

Compromise is part of the game >_>

Did I want a BLM, WHM or even a COR which I have an empy for? No.

I levelled them so that I, for the first 2 listed, could join parties for my AF3 armour seals and COR for VW, NNI, Meebles ect...

I always wanted to be a DRK but what is DRK good for in abyssea? nothing that cannot be done better by another job eg. WAR for red !! and BLM for yellow. And it isn't really useful in solo / duo without great gear and/or the other player a support role.

If you think that you can say "I want to be a DRG and go a DRG to everything regardless of what is needed" then no wonder you get nothing done in the 30min-2 hours you play. (DRG was just an example before you say...)


TL: DR - Without compromise you will never get anywhere, not only in this game but with many things in rl also.
/rant