Please raise the combat and weaopn skill max merits

[Karbuncle]

I'm sorry, but you declaring somebody wrong does not make them wrong.

But being wrong makes you wrong. Anlehlnem, I know for the most part your intentions aren't always bad, But 9/10 I just see you playing, essentially, the devils advocate. In most cases you do not think something is needed simply because it will not effect you or you have not experienced the negative effects of it.

As a side note, I've helped more than ~40-50 People get Access to Provenance, But I'm also not the server babysitter nor can i solo the entire thing, So me helping isn't going to get them there, and the rest of the server is not so generous. I mean, I half jokingly asked if you know just because you don't experience something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen... and in the next response you pretty much just flat out say "I can pop them so i don't see how this is an issue". I mean, I kinda... You just kinda won it for me.

Don't worry about taking your exit, If you want to respond to this, you can... I'll try to explain why raising the cap is better than changing the whole darn thing.

1) Its easier to Raise the Merit limit to 25, rather then reprogram all ~14 Weaponskills with 4 new Merit Tiers (65/70/75/80 respectively), and adjust merit values for each.

2) If their goal is to let people access more WS, then raising the cap accomplishes this and also allows the players who want to garner the full potential of their Ws's have it.

3) Putting 3/5 into a merit means you're losing roughly 10% DMG on the WS, which is significantly more than most single pieces of armor can provide. so, even for the casual crowd, thats losing a lot of potential. I can't think of a WS I'd like to ditch 10% Potency on... If i ditched 10% of Exent's potency, Evisc or Mercy will likely start to pull ahead... If i Ditch 10% in Resolution, I'm just insane... Shattersoul? I could lose 10%, But then I'd only have 2 merits and a 15% Nerfed WS wouldn't be worth the investment... Except maybe Realmrazer only because every other club WS in comparison sucks (Minue WHM only ones).

4) Its the most popular and well-agreed upon idea across the forums, Raising Cap from 15 to 25, allows 5 Fully merited WS, only ~1/3rd of Total available. Its a great compromise and middle ground without the need to sacrifice in output potential.

There's a lot of reasons this compromise would work a lot better than what they came up with... I understand they want to make these WS's exclusive, and i respect that, making them less Exclusive is all we want, and allowing us slightly less gimp WS's isn't going to change anyones Merit set ups (Maybe a handful of folks)

[Alhanelem]

Don't worry about taking your exit, If you want to respond to this, you can... I'll try to explain why raising the cap is better than changing the whole darn thing.

Fine.

But being wrong makes you wrong.

I'm not being wrong though. You're simply telling me I'm wrong- that doesn't make it so. repeating it in different words doesn't make it true. You are asserting that I am wrong about something, but you give no explanation other than "you are wrong."

4) Its the most popular and well-agreed upon idea across the forums, Raising Cap from 15 to 25, allows 5 Fully merited WS, only ~1/3rd of Total available. Its a great compromise and middle ground without the need to sacrifice in output potential.

As I mentioned in the other thread (don't know why we basically have two nearly identical conversations going side by side) I'm not opposed to an increase in the cap. I'm only opposed to removing it entirely. With two new jobs that most people most likely didn't factor in to their decision of which WS to get, It's not unreasonable to ask to be able to level up another one or two.

The whole reason this conversation came about is that SE is implementing a solution to alleviate an issue players have. Honestly, I think it does do that job. I'm not opposed to a cap increase (not removal) at all. I just don't understand the outrage at SE's solution.

[FrankReynolds]

Your theory of creating originality and diversity by not letting people do things they ant to do is completely broken. I simply stated that you were wrong because I know that no one wants to read 20 pages of you trying to explain how not having a choice is a good thing. It's not. You are wrong. It's not a matter of opinion. It's a fact. Games are created to bring the user enjoyment. This lack of choice almost universally does the opposite. It contradicts the purpose of the game and is therefor wrong. As are you.

I'll leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfGA6I1HOs

[Alhanelem]

I simply stated that you were wrong because I know that no one wants to read 20 pages of you trying to explain how not having a choice is a good thing.

You do have a choice. These limits require you to make choices. You can't be the best at everything. Why can't people accept that the game wasn't designed to allow you to be the best at everything. Allowing you to play everything != allowing you to be the best at everything.

FFXI is not a sandbox game or a god game, therefore the limits make sense and are reasonable to have in place. Limits and restrictions do not innately make a game unfun.

This lack of choice almost universally does the opposite

There isn't a lack of choice. Limits create choices, not take them away. "Hmm, well, I can have three weapon skills. Do I get this one and that one and the other one? or do I get that one, this one and this one?" Those are choices. If there are no limits, the choices become meaningless because why choose when you can just pick everything?

Should they have the offsides rule in football? the icing rule in hockey? these are limits that control how the game is played. Are these sports less fun and entertaining because they have rules? Limits exist for a reason. Removing them is not good game design.

It contradicts the purpose of the game and is therefor wrong. As are you.

Your logic is flawed. Limits do not innately contradict the purpose of the game, and is not therefore wrong, nor am I.

[Glamdring]

@Al

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. And FFXI as originally designed all your points were dead on, but: They doubled regular XP, added level sync, added pages, added XP rings, added leech play aka Aby, eased relics, eased Empy, added VW (force pop), admittedly completely burned Nyzul, salvage, sea, sky and HNMs into meaninglessness, added adventuring fellows and the like. The days of players-even casuals like myself-playing only 1-2 jobs are GONE. SE did this to themselves when they made it possible to go 1-99 in under a week, and pretty much just mailing it in to do so.

So, the request for expanded merits-especially when a casual like myself is playing 9 level 99 jobs-isn't out of the question, it actually makes sense. I don't even specialize in 2 jobs anymore, but 6. For players more dedicated than myself that number is no doubt higher. And so the bitch is that even though players have developed a high standard to their play there is an artificial limit to how good they can be. Example, I love my new rune, I really do, but all my merits are dumpped into buffs for H2H, dagger and axe (with a few in songs skills), I just don't have the ability to make a top flight rune without trashing the high level for my bst, brd, pup, dnc or thf. I'm sorry, I just can't see that as a good thing. My LS uses me as a utility player, I fill whatever hole we have in party builds (so the back-burner status of rdm is even more tragic), but by this philosophy of low merit limits I'm asked to be less efective in those roles, even though I have the skills to do it right.

So I'm sorry, but I gotta side with the people complaining/requesting here, even though as I said in an earlier post we are "beating a dead horse", since this has been asked multiple times and we got the generic "no, balance issues" reply.

[FrankReynolds]

You do have a choice. These limits require you to make choices. You can't be the best at everything. Why can't people accept that the game wasn't designed to allow you to be the best at everything. Allowing you to play everything != allowing you to be the best at everything.

See, this is what I mean. Your arguments are nonsense. Meriting a weapon skill does not make you the best at anything. You have to do millions of nm fights and build the best gear sets while simultaneously perfecting your game play to be the best. Meriting a weapon skill just means that you are not artificially gimped by an arbitrary limitation. Get it through your head. Right now you have three weapon-skills fully merited no doubt and I promise you that you are not the best at any of the jobs that can use them and no amount of merit points is going to change that.

EDIT: and to be clear, that was not a stab at your skills. I'm simply pointing out that there will always be someone who has different gear than you and / or is better regardless of your merits.

FFXI is not a sandbox game or a god game, therefore the limits make sense and are reasonable to have in place. Limits and restrictions do not innately make a game unfun.

No. Limits which inhibit game play and frustrate the player do though, which is exactly what I said.

There isn't a lack of choice. Limits create choices, not take them away.

No. They don't create choices. They necessitate them. There is a difference. Not meriting a weapon skill is a choice. Not being able to merit a weapon skill is a limitation. Learn it. understand it. live it.

Should they have the offsides rule in football? the icing rule in hockey? these are limits that control how the game is played. Are these sports less fun and entertaining because they have rules? Limits exist for a reason. Removing them is not good game design.

Those rules do not facilitate nor exclude choice and are therefor irrelevant to the conversation. Try harder.

Your logic is flawed. Limits do not innately contradict the purpose of the game, and is not therefore wrong, nor am I.

This limit does and you are wrong.

[Alhanelem]

See, this is what I mean. Your arguments are nonsense.

There is nothing nonsensical about my arguments. You'll have to explain exactly what doesn't make sense to you, then I'll be happy to elaborate on it so that it does make sense to you.

Meriting a weapon skill does not make you the best at anything.

When I talk about being the best at eveverything, I mean from a statistical standpoint, not a player skill standpoint.

No. They don't create choices. They necessitate them. There is a difference.

No, there isn't a difference. Necessitating the choices is the whole point. If there are no limits, you don't have to make any choices- you can just choose "everything." Having the limits in place means your decisions have weight- they matter. With no limits, your choices don't matter, because you will just get everything eventually.

Beyond this, merits are not permanent. You can remove them and level something else up instead. So if you decide you just can't live without Merit X, you can remove merit Y that you don't use so much and replace it. Thus, you still have the freedom of choice- you simply can't have it all simultaneously.

Those rules do not facilitate nor exclude choice and are therefor irrelevant to the conversation. Try harder.

Okay: you just countered your own argument about limits only being destructive to a game. The limits I described you just admitted are not destructive to those games.

This limit does and you are wrong.

No, it doesn't, and I'm not wrong. I have an opinion which you happen to disagree with. This does not make it right or wrong. Again, you declaring something wrong does not make it so.

[Alhanelem]

@Al

I understand where you are coming from, I really do. And FFXI as originally designed all your points were dead on, but: They doubled regular XP, added level sync, added pages, added XP rings, added leech play aka Aby, eased relics, eased Empy, added VW (force pop), admittedly completely burned Nyzul, salvage, sea, sky and HNMs into meaninglessness, added adventuring fellows and the like. The days of players-even casuals like myself-playing only 1-2 jobs are GONE. SE did this to themselves when they made it possible to go 1-99 in under a week, and pretty much just mailing it in to do so.

So, the request for expanded merits-especially when a casual like myself is playing 9 level 99 jobs-isn't out of the question, it actually makes sense. I don't even specialize in 2 jobs anymore, but 6. For players more dedicated than myself that number is no doubt higher. And so the bitch is that even though players have developed a high standard to their play there is an artificial limit to how good they can be. Example, I love my new rune, I really do, but all my merits are dumpped into buffs for H2H, dagger and axe (with a few in songs skills), I just don't have the ability to make a top flight rune without trashing the high level for my bst, brd, pup, dnc or thf. I'm sorry, I just can't see that as a good thing. My LS uses me as a utility player, I fill whatever hole we have in party builds (so the back-burner status of rdm is even more tragic), but by this philosophy of low merit limits I'm asked to be less efective in those roles, even though I have the skills to do it right.

So I'm sorry, but I gotta side with the people complaining/requesting here, even though as I said in an earlier post we are "beating a dead horse", since this has been asked multiple times and we got the generic "no, balance issues" reply.

Now here is a post that makes sense. While I respectfully disagree, Glam, I understand your perspective. You're able to make your point without being immature and just spurting out things like "You're wrong."

[Karbuncle]

There was plenty of reason and logic to my post about this subject.

4000 Posts ago when it was first brought up and i made a thread about it which i posted here, in this thread, on page one, as the second response.

You repeat something 4000 times and you're eventually going to go into Caveman speak because you assume its just not getting through >_>

[Alhanelem]

you assume its just not getting through >_>

I know it's not getting through, I don't have to assume. It's not getting through by choice to disagree, not because it's "wrong."

There was plenty of reason and logic to my post about this subject.

There is plenty of reason and logic to my post about the subject as well. You're totally free to disagree with it as it's an opinion. You simply can't call it "wrong," because it's not an assertion of fact in the first place- it's an opinion.

Personally, I think the most reasonable solution to the "problem" is to do away with merits being lost when changed, and allow you to pay a fee or something to unlearn all your merits and respend them as you see fit ("respecing"), in your mog house. This preserves having to make choices while allowing you to undo those choices without having to go through hours of work.

However, I accept that a lot of people disagree with limits because nobody likes to have the game (or a person for that matter) say "No." I accept that my opinion will probably never be popular because everybody wants more more more and assumes that more must be better in every way.