How about letting us upgrade Thief's Knife with ToM

[Zarchery]

I don't play THF seriously. I took it to 50 for the AF (I recently got it into my head that I wanted to collect all of the AF sets--I'm nearly done that little project). Is a Treasure Hunter -1 penalty (taken because you're using some knife other than the Thief's Knife) really that bad?

Also, if people are giving you a hard time because you didn't have Thief's Knife equipped, can't you bluff your way past that? How rigorously are people /checked? Carry a Thief's Knife but don't equip it. If someone catches you say "Oops I forgot" and equip it. Or failing that just switch to your better knife as soon as the fight starts? I'm just spitballing here. Maybe these are stupid ideas.

[Nebo]

Is a Treasure Hunter -1 penalty (taken because you're using some knife other than the Thief's Knife) really that bad?

It's probably the fact that the job sucks, its abilities suck, the TH system sucks, the way it functions sucks, etc more than TH-1 being "all that bad."

Its all bad.

[Zarchery]

It's probably the fact that the job sucks, its abilities suck, the TH system sucks, the way it functions sucks, etc more than TH-1 being "all that bad."

Its all bad.

I thought this thread was about the Thief's Knife.

[Karbuncle]

Well can't have your cake and eat it too. Thats how jobs get way too overpowered.

If that +1 TH means just that much to you, then you have to deal with the reduced att or the loss of TP. Like someone said earlier too, the 1 th on high lvl mobs has a marginal effect. So you basically need to choose your priorities.

Also if tp is really that important for emergency waltzes and such there is always reverse flourish.

If you think THF is good at anything you just suggested in your posts.. DPS, etc, You're right and wrong. Think of it this way, I'm going to use a Pokemon Analogy.

Thats right. Pokemon.

Mew has a Base Stat total of 100 Across all of his Stats.
Arceus has a Base Total of 120.

THF is Mew
WAR/MNK/DRK/DRG/EveryDDjob is Arceus

While there are varying degrees of power, and a Mew may be better than an Arceus simply because the Arceus got sh*tty IV's and the trainer is retarded and EV'd him wrong, Point for point, Arceus has more potential in Every field.

In the same way, Just because a THF Can be good, Doesn't mean point for point Every DD Job has far more potential. What this means is quite simple, THF Doesn't excell at anything, It isn't overpowered, and Giving us a replacement for THF's knife isn't going to break the job. You're slightly misguided in your ideals here.

More to the point, THF does not excel at DPS, it has no strong points. Its less useful in all of its fields behind some other job. Even Evasion tanking, a NIN has theoretically far more survival as /DNC, due to shadows, and etc. DPS - Any DD job ever. It just has Treasure Hunter.

So to sum it up, THF HAs potential in many fields, But its easily replaced by someone who can do it better. The only standing feature of the job is Treasure Hunter.

I hope i explained this pretty accurately, This is coming from a Thief with a 99 Mandau, Gear swaps for occassions your grandma thought of in a lucid dream about Elvis, and a long standing Love for the job. I'm not always right, but I always learn from my mistakes, and look up any and all info i can on the job, In all sources.

THF is mediocre, Treasure Hunter is the only thing that gets it invited, and replacing an outdated level 70 weapon wont break the job.

-For the record, as a stated in a previous post, Its not about "Not using it" when you're only wanted for TH, So if you want to do anything group related, You're going to be sacrificing your DPS, or you're not doing an event.

Sorry if this came off harsh, I know you're hearts in the right place, Its simply you are wrong in this instance.

[Nebo]

I thought this thread was about the Thief's Knife.

It is.

How do I put this? Why does the weapon have to suck this bad for a stat that sucks so bad on a job that sucks so bad?

TH+1 is something that is likely to be nigh undetectable in a statistical analysis. The idea that the weapon HAS to be weak to yield that minor an increase is more than a little absurd.

As a mater of fact, I would go as far to say that Treasure Hunter itself is not so powerful a trait that it warrants the restrictions, timers and general lunacy attached to the rest of THF traits and abilities.

Because we HAVE to use it to max TH, Thief's Knife is just a constant reminder of that big SE thumb on THF's forehead that screams "Aurasteal is too powerful for you!"

[Riggs]

i've pretty much been full time thf for 4 + years, i very seldom use thf knife as thf beyond a certain point seems to make little or no difference. Take dynamis, i solo approx 170 coins a run, i macro in and out thf gear, however some times i forget but it seems that after thf 5 the drops will be the same as thf 8, it seems completly random, maybe it would be different if mobs did not have a set number of drop slots and the higher you proc thf the more it would drop

[Elphy]

If you think THF is good at anything you just suggested in your posts.. DPS, etc, You're right and wrong. Think of it this way, I'm going to use a Pokemon Analogy.

Thats right. Pokemon.

Mew has a Base Stat total of 100 Across all of his Stats.
Arceus has a Base Total of 120.

THF is Mew
WAR/MNK/DRK/DRG/EveryDDjob is Arceus

While there are varying degrees of power, and a Mew may be better than an Arceus simply because the Arceus got sh*tty IV's and the trainer is retarded and EV'd him wrong, Point for point, Arceus has more potential in Every field.

In the same way, Just because a THF Can be good, Doesn't mean point for point Every DD Job has far more potential. What this means is quite simple, THF Doesn't excell at anything, It isn't overpowered, and Giving us a replacement for THF's knife isn't going to break the job. You're slightly misguided in your ideals here.

More to the point, THF does not excel at DPS, it has no strong points. Its less useful in all of its fields behind some other job. Even Evasion tanking, a NIN has theoretically far more survival as /DNC, due to shadows, and etc. DPS - Any DD job ever. It just has Treasure Hunter.

So to sum it up, THF HAs potential in many fields, But its easily replaced by someone who can do it better. The only standing feature of the job is Treasure Hunter.

I hope i explained this pretty accurately, This is coming from a Thief with a 99 Mandau, Gear swaps for occassions your grandma thought of in a lucid dream about Elvis, and a long standing Love for the job. I'm not always right, but I always learn from my mistakes, and look up any and all info i can on the job, In all sources.

THF is mediocre, Treasure Hunter is the only thing that gets it invited, and replacing an outdated level 70 weapon wont break the job.

-For the record, as a stated in a previous post, Its not about "Not using it" when you're only wanted for TH, So if you want to do anything group related, You're going to be sacrificing your DPS, or you're not doing an event.

Sorry if this came off harsh, I know you're hearts in the right place, Its simply you are wrong in this instance.

I wasnt at all suggesting that thf was good at any of the above. What I was saying is that the people who are constantly complaining that se needs to make thf a major dps job, or anything of that sort are being a little short sighted. Whatever job you have you have to prioritize what you want to do in the situations. Granted in a pt you are going to be used for th, just like a whm is going to be used for heals and a blm for nukes. Its situational. And you are bringing th to the pt just like sam is bringing dps. But sams dont complain about being only dps. But asking for thf to be a dd + have treasure hunter + high survivability + etc etc just ends up making a job that is overpowered.

Hence you cant have your cake and eat it too.

This game is designed with group play in mind so being pigeonholed into a roll is kindda the name of the game. If they want to equalize the playing field thats fine but super powering certain jobs like they have been doing recently is what really causes an imbalance. If when soloing with thf you want high th or high dps you need to prioritise. Just like a dd who wants to solo may have to give up some dps or whatnot if they want to sub a job for heals. Its because they had to prioritise. Not sure if Im making sense but again I see this as a moot arguement.

[SpankWustler]

I wasnt at all suggesting that thf was good at any of the above. What I was saying is that the people who are constantly complaining that se needs to make thf a major dps job, or anything of that sort are being a little short sighted. Whatever job you have you have to prioritize what you want to do in the situations. Granted in a pt you are going to be used for th, just like a whm is going to be used for heals and a blm for nukes. Its situational. And you are bringing th to the pt just like sam is bringing dps. But sams dont complain about being only dps. But asking for thf to be a dd + have treasure hunter + high survivability + etc etc just ends up making a job that is overpowered.

Gearing for damage is often very complex. What a Samurai uses in Legion might be totally different than what a Samurai uses on Arch Dyamis Lord might be totally different than what a Samurai uses on a Meeble Burrows Boss.

Gearing for and totally focusing on Treasure Hunter involves three pieces of equipment and, preferably, a second or third account that isn't needed as a mediocre White Mage/Summoner/Bard/etc. so a whole player isn't occupied by single-wielding a Thief's knife. That's how Treasure Hunter is optimized against anything and everything, forever.

You have a good point on a conceptual level, but on a practical level, you're comparing apples to a glass of urine with "Apple Juice" written on it by a confused Development Bro. If focusing on Treasure Hunter were as involved or complex and difficult to equip for as focusing on beating a thing to death with a thing, the situation might be very different.

In the interest of helping Darkseid complete his Anti-Life Equation, though, I'll add that even upgrading Thief's Knife wouldn't change any of this very much.

[Karbuncle]

Which is also kinda why i think "upgrading" A Thief's knife is the wrong path to take. an Accessory replacement would be the most desirable and easy to do, far less time involved.

Still, Spanky is correct. Now, I've made a thousand THF Suggestions, some for Damage, and a f**kton for Utility upgrades that give THF a unique or advantages spot in a part, not just as a TH Whore. Plain and simple, DPS Wont help the job too much, it could use a small damage boost, but COR Gets by just fine with its damage because it has utility. if THF Could have this utility, it too could be welcome in a part.

I wish i could bring up any of the thousands of THF Suggestion threads for you to show you my ideas... In fact, I might...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...raps-and-Bombs.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ead-Contribute!

[Nebo]

I wasnt at all suggesting that thf was good at any of the above. What I was saying is that the people who are constantly complaining that se needs to make thf a major dps job, or anything of that sort are being a little short sighted. Whatever job you have you have to prioritize what you want to do in the situations. Granted in a pt you are going to be used for th, just like a whm is going to be used for heals and a blm for nukes. Its situational. And you are bringing th to the pt just like sam is bringing dps. But sams dont complain about being only dps. But asking for thf to be a dd + have treasure hunter + high survivability + etc etc just ends up making a job that is overpowered.

Are you really comparing something like WHM's ability to heal to Treasure Hunter?

Treasure Hunter is not something to base a job role around. It's a weak passive job trait. You can try to feel like you are contributing to a battle by showing your party members "SEE guys! I are RAISING TREASURE HUNTER!!!" But in reality, you aren't doing much of anything....annnnnd it's not useful on an alarming amount of content.

This is also why SE gave THF those useless enmity abilities that no one wants them for.

A WHM's ability to heal is not only extremely powerful, based on several gear sets, timing, player skill and strategy...but it is useful on nearly every content the game has to offer. Normally I would try to think of something witty to say to that but Spank put it pretty well:

you're comparing apples to a glass of urine with "Apple Juice" written on it by a confused Development Bro

This quote leads me to believe you have very little experience with THF:

asking for thf to be a dd + have treasure hunter + high survivability + etc etc just ends up making a job that is overpowered.

People seem to forget this, but there was a time when THF was one of the best DD's in the game, and sought after by many groups for SATA lines and Closing Skill Chains.

The issue is that the game has evolved and THF has not.

There was also a time when THF was the best at making gil, but RMT's exlpoited its abilities, SE took them away, and never gave anything of value in return to replace them.

Evasion does not equal high survivablity. 80% evade rate is the cap for everyone. Lots of jobs that can reach the evade rate cap are better DD's than THF, and posses better survivability tools.

But to respond to your point, THF really can't survive well against anything that would put them in a pigeon hole such that treasure hunter is the only thing of value they bring. Crazy AOE damage, AGA spam, High Acuracy and Atack/Base DMG?

The reality is that THF is also fairly low on this totem pole as well.

For THF to be a DD + Treasure Hunter + High evasion would not be overpowered because:

• It's DD would still be weak relative to other DD's
• Treasure Hunter is not powerful enough
• Physical Evasion + paper thin defense has several limitations

That said, I don't think many THFs are clamoring to be a king DPS job. Certainly not many I've seen on these boards.

But I think the general consensus is that we WOULD like to have SOMETHING that is worth a shit.

This whole "Thief's Knife is supposed to be weak, because it gives TH+1" argument needs to die in a fire. As if somehow TH+1 is some super godly stat that warrants a piece of shit weapon be mandatory on a piece of shit DD to perform its piece of shit TH "job role."

It's ridiculous.