Concerning the "Windows XP Support Information" threads that were made

[Mirage]

Now that you are ending Windows XP support, does this mean you will update the game client so that it performs as well in Win7/8 as it did in XP?

I'm not using XP myself, but when I did, I always got a lot better performance there than I did on Win7, even if I used the same hardware.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I'm sure they'll get right on that, just as soon as they improve Xbox 360 performance after the PS2 is no longer supported.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Limecat]

I'll bet my last dollar this just means they won't field support calls about installs on XP machines anymore, rather than a complete client rewrite that kinda-sorta works on XP the same way the current one kinda-sorta works on Vista/7/8.

[Sarick]

I'll bet my last dollar this just means they won't field support calls about installs on XP machines anymore, rather than a complete client rewrite that kinda-sorta works on XP the same way the current one kinda-sorta works on Vista/7/8.

More or less I aggree its about bean counters cutting corners to save money. This probably isn't being done to enhance the game just save money by not supporting paying customers who are running an older operating system. It's not like the support staff was able to fix complex issues anyway. XP still technically has a full year under it's belt before MS actually ends support. I can't read Japanese so I can't see if there is a post on that they're doing the same in Japan with XP.

Either way, I'm sure others purchased the expansion pre-order already thinking tthey'd be getting full support only to have SE pull the rug out from under them. You know its kind of like bait and switch at the last moment. I have a feeling if they do make changes it'll break the game for the unsupported setups. If it isn't obvious, I'm really upset about how things are being run so I'm hoping this backfires on them horribly just like FFXIV did.

[RAIST]

[NA] Windows XP Support Information
We regret to inform you that Final Fantasy XI / PlayOnline will no longer support Windows XP in accordance with the following schedule.

Due to the fact that Microsoft(R) has already completed the support life cycle of this product, we have found that continuing support for this OS is a difficult proposition.

At the time support for this product ceases, the software you are currently using will continue to function and games will still be playable. We will also continue to perform regular updates of existing software. However, after the date when we discontinue support, we will as a general rule no longer be able to provide support for problems arising as a result of the operating system.

Furthermore, customer support for members utilizing this operating system will still be available through the Square Enix Support Center.

[Support End Date]
March 26th, 2013

[Affected Operating Systems]
Windows XP

Square Enix Support Center
http://support.na.square-enix.com/

hmmm.... they kinda jumped the shark there, eh? Micro$oft extended XP SP3 support until April 08, 2014.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windo...ofsupport.aspx

Windows XP SP3 and Office 2003Support Ends April 8, 2014

Basically all they're saying is they aren't going to bother helping any XP users with install issues that are a result of Windows specific problems after next month I guess. Which I find kind of odd, considering there aren't really issues with Windows XP specific incompatability. It's kinda funny....I was running 98SE until I got into FFXI roughly a decade ago. If not for FFXI, I might have held out until I felt the need for my next rebuild--and might have wound up skipping XP completely. I have NEVER had any issues with running FFXI in XP--and I've gone through at least 5 rebuilds of my system, going through several motherboards (Intel and AMD CPU based) and about 8 video cards (both ATI and nVidia) over the years. Getting FFXI to run on newer OS's though, that is a whole other ball game.

People in XP having issues are usually due to something else not tied specifically to XP itself. It may be a generic networking/security problem, or a problem with a third party piece not under Microsoft's responsibility (Steam install problem, driver or hardware problem/conflict, third party software conflict, etc.).

The people typically having problems these days are in the newer versions of Windows...and a lot of that is ultimately due to the way Microsoft knackered up legacy DirectX support in Vista/W7/W8. And a lot of what isn't DirectX/Driver related are often problems with UAC/Aero (features added in post XP versions of Windows). These types of problems simply are not present in XP (except maybe new vid cards that have shotty XP driver support perhaps, but that is an issue with ATI/Nvidia/Creative/Asus/Dell/etc. support, and not Windows per se). For an XP install...provided you have the proper drivers installed for your hardware (a vendor issue, not specifically an XP issue) you basically just install the game, register and what not, and play the game. It's the Vista/W7/W8 crowd that have to jump through so many hoops.

Oh well... not like it's the first snafu they've ever made in the support arena.

About the only thing I can think of is perhaps we are finally going to get that DirectX update we were expecting years ago...considering that is basically what the problems boil down to in Win7/8---the thunking back to pre DX10 is what is wreaking so much havoc with driver support on the newer DX11 cards put in these systems that come with W7/8 installed on them. But...even so, it shouldn't cause a problem so long as they stay within the DX9c realm.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

In contrast, XP is acceptable for the ARR beta.

http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/detail_na.html

The more I think about it, the weirder this announcement gets.

[Sarick]

It's the Vista/W7/W8 crowd that have to jump through so many hoops.

Maybe the new install was half arsed and only installs the Vista PLUS play online viewer. Basically if you have XP they might not support the XP play online if it get's updated. This is bad news and shows very little respect for customers. It all comes down to cutting corners and saving money by shifting the responsibility to the backs of the customer.

It's not like XP has a 5% market share yet. At most people will upgrade to Windows 7, Windows 8 please GO away!

In contrast, XP is acceptable for the ARR beta.

http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/detail_na.html

The more I think about it, the weirder this announcement gets.

Just more evidence that FFXI is dying or being killed off by bean counters. They keep cutting there won't be anything left. The next thing they might do is offer paid support. You have a problem $10 at the start of the call and $1 each additional minute your on the phone.

This sounds like it might become a reality at the rate things are going.

XP is obviously the most compatible FFXI OS to date. If there are OS issues they'll either be caused by a client update or bad drivers related to NEW hardware. If the system works now it shouldn't break from a FFXI update. If t does break then it's SE or the player installing new drivers not XP. If SE does this breaking clients then decides to hide behind the "we don't support that OS" it just bad busyness.

The whole a realm reborn thing makes me chuckle with glee. If that's being bata tested then the whole issue with FFXI not supporting XP seems to sway along the lines of cutting corners to save money. Supporting XP in a newer project shows it has money to back it at launch. If that supporting an OS takes that much resources then just imagine what else is being gimped/cut to save money behind the scenes.

You all might not have realized it but PS2 support has surely ended by now in the USA. It ended way back in 2010 when cut scenes broke. They never officially announced it but if something isn't fixed after two years it's fairly clear they didn't give a hoot enough to support it.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I think I found a reason:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/env...tml?pageID=win

I suspect XP support got dropped because S-E is tired of dealing with ATI driver issues in XP.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Just to put some numbers on things, I tried both the old XI benchmark program and the new ARR benchmark, on both Windows 7 64-bit and XP 32-bit. I've got a Radeon HD 4670, and used Catalyst 10.11 in Win7 and 9.4 in XP (as per the link in my prior post). I ran the benchmarks in their default settings ("Low" for XI, "Medium" for ARR), and ran each benchmark 3 times.

Windows 7 scores:
XI--5949, 5856, 5823
ARR--3090, 3044, 3066

Windows XP scores:
XI--8546, 8495, 8496
ARR--4266, 4258, 4223

I think I'll stick with XP, support be damned.

[Mirage]

Those benchmark scores for FF11 are consistent with the performance drop I experienced when migrating from XP to Win7. Before seeing those scores, I estimated the performance drop to be around 30%. With settings that previously let me get 30 fps in most areas, I would after the OS upgrade only get 20ish fps, which meant I had to reduce the graphical quality to get the framerates I wanted.

It is a shame, for sure.

Of course, this thread is in reality a bit of a joke from my side. Being realistic, I do not really expect what I asked for to actually happen, although it would greatly please me if I ended up being wrong.