Is anyone particularly happy with the new gear from New Salvage?

[Jaall]

Lol... seriously have you seen what you're saying? They aren't missing out at all because everyone has access. They have a choice to do salvage no matter what, they can join for fun and get sets for different jobs or just get nothing and play solely for the enjoyment. If people decide they don't want anything from it and then refuse to do it and say SE aren't including them then they don't deserve anything.

[Jaall]

Also life brings all sorts of disappointment, if they can't handle a game swapping Nyzul and Salvage standards when it's really designed to be different then wow, people need to get out more. But then that probably explains why they take a game so seriously! All im saying is people elude me when it comes to this.

[Areayea]

For a single piece, I'm doing something like a month of neo salvage runs every day, spending 300k on gold coins, and then have to trade in my old item in addition to that. Some of the upgrades (Usukane Sune-Ate +1) are quite good, while some are almost totally pointless (Skadi's Jambeaux +1). Unless there's some kind of augment system that hasn't been discovered yet these pieces are pretty lackluster for the amount of effort they require to obtain. Keep in mind, you're sacrificing doing a normal salvage run in favor of doing neo salvage, so you're technically losing out on hundreds of thousands of gil with every single run.

HOW CAN U NOT LOVE +18% FOR BST X.X, only question

[Yenecol]

In the end Salvage is a slower event in a few ways, you must go every other day, no tags to store up, so at best you can do two runs every two days. drops are limited to 1 person not given to everyone upon mob death, no 100% chance at the item of your choice if you kill the HQ. The time per run is 100 minutes rather than 30 minutes, Salvage has a lot more stopping where as Nyzul is constantly moving or failure. Salvage needs old drops as well as new for some of the gear, NNI gave you the gear straight up. Salvage requires plans to get the gear, NNI had no special requirement such as that, the closest was the 5~25 KIs needed for a piece from the next tier, which when doing floor 100, was non-comparable anyways.

This was the point I attempted to make, sorry my number was off due to my farming in a certain area, I should have checked BG and DB before posting an exact number.

You get it Demon. You totally get it. Kudos! I liked all of your posts. You understand exactly why fans of Salvage, such as myself, are pissed off.

[Jaall]

You get it Demon. You totally get it. Kudos! I liked all of your posts. You understand exactly why fans of Salvage, such as myself, are pissed off.

You're a fan of salvage REWARDS, not salvage.

[Asymptotic]

Just for some comparisons here.

99 Mjollnir
DMG: 93 Rank 10 (18 cap fSTR cap)
Delay: 308
Raw DPS: 18.11, fSTR cap DPS: 21.62
Attack +40
3x damage on first hit with 13% proc rate.
Occasionally restores MP on hit

Tutunui
DMG: 52 Rank 5 (13 fSTR cap)
Delay 210
Raw DPS: 14.85, fSTR cap DPS: 18.57
STR +11
Attack +22 (27.5)

Tahtib
DMG: 37, rank 4 (12 fSTR cap)
Delay: 340
2~4 hits (40/30/20/10 distribution for 2.0 average per round)
Raw DPS: 13.05, fSTR cap DPS: 17.29

That's without touching the fact that STR club gives you +2.75 fSTR and +27.5 attack. At 0 DA (you'll always have at least 5 from brutal) STR club easily beats out 2~4 club. None of the 2~4x weapons are good due to low proc rates.

Kraken Club
DMG: 11, rank 1 (9 fSTR cap)
Delay: 265
hits 2~8x (2:5:20:23:23:20:5:2 distribution for 3.82 per round)
Raw DPS: 9.55, fSTR cap DPS: 17.28

As above both the STR club and the 2~4 club beat out the K.Club for DPS, without counting STR / Attack. K.Club attacks 3.82 times per attack round for an average TP gain of 26.74 per attack round. 2~4 club is 17.7 Tp per attack around and 8.08 TP per attack round. Those numbers are without counting the 30% DW that you should be using.

We can go deeper by combining Mjol with each and factoring out DPS but it gets sketchy depending on your target. Overall STR beats out everything with K.Club and 2~4 jocking for 2nd depending on situation. The 2~4's stupid delay and low proc rate are what make it tend to rank 3rd, KC's obscenely low base DMG are what prevent it from being first, even after counting for additional TP gain. Remember these weapons are paired with a high damage main hand that lowers their TP gain rate, that's why RNG's and DRK's would single wield them. RNG for high damage cannon spam, DRK for SEBW zerging (don't ever WS).

Side Note,
Something that has been glossed over is how deficient WHM is in attack. Not having native DW and being forced to /NIN or /DNC means no access to Berserk. Even accounting for Dia II the WHM will only be capping ratio on the really weak EP monsters. Anything level ~80 (~350 defense) or higher your not capping on. A 99 Taru WHM/NIN is looking at 80 base STR, adding on 12 for merits puts them at 92 base STR. To get +9 fSTR your going to need 36 dSTR (72 dSTR for Mjol), that same ~80 monster will have approx 75 VIT really easy to cap fSTR on the KC but not Mjol. DC Dyna mob has about 430 defense and 95 VIT, things just got much harder. Hit the 99 EM monster and your talking 516 defense and 118 VIT, good luck on that ratio and fSTR caps. This is why the STR magian weapons are so powerful, DW jobs are effected by fSTR more so then 2H jobs and DW jobs rarely have access to high attack values. This becomes and ever bigger issue for jobs that can't get Berserk and DWIII at the same time (PLD,BST,RDM,WHM,BRD) as their now lacking the single biggest attack buff JA in the game.

Considering WHM/NIN vs. DCs in Dynamis using Realmrazer, Mjollnir 99 using Red Curry Buns.

Optimal
Kraken DPS: 255

Sort of acceptable
STR Magian DPS: 203
OA2-4 Magian DPS: 202
OAT Magian DPS: 200

<Run away!>
Yagrush 99 DPS: 192
Gambanteinn 99 DPS: 191
Store TP Magian DPS: 191
Moepapa DPS: 184
DA Magian DPS: 182

Calculated before the most recent update, but there's been nothing introduced to vastly change these numbers.

Using my TP set which is sub-optimal because I refuse to make a regain moonshade for an activity as whimsical as clubbing.

You somehow seem to completely ignore(?) underestimate(?) the potency of Kraken's increased WS frequency.

You are right that, for example Fire Magian club offhand slightly increases melee dot (129), but compared to the Kraken Offhand (3.96 rounds --> WS) it has drastically decreased WS frequency (8.29 rounds ---> WS). Realmrazer is no slouch with an optimal build versus these targets (~2600), so that's a huge hit to your damage. Tathib OA2-4 fares a bit better (5.12 rounds / WS) but actually has worse melee dps (111) than Kraken offhand (117).

Another benefit to WHM melee is infinite MP from Mystic Boon, which would lower these DPS numbers but just doesn't happen without a Kraken Club. A non-kraken melee/support WHM might have to use mystic boon all the time to keep up its TP due to casting delay, and longer intervals between WS. Kraken WHM can freely use its damaging WS because the next opportunity to use Mystic Boon to refresh your pool is right around the corner.

An optimal WHM melee build also naturally has 46% Subtle blow when Auspice is counted, so the "TP feed" even in cases where enemies would naturally use their TP right away (not most of the time) is not as severe as you might think.

These numbers may seem low but that's because this assumes no outside support. Throw in a DNC or a BRD or a COR or Embrava or something and WHM melee becomes "respectable" versus weak targets (of course at this point the actual value of this is questionable outside of "It's fun as hell to smack things in the face with a hammer on WHM"). Still, it's a lot more damage than your WHM would be doing sitting on the backlines, so if it's an event that would support a frontline WHM, and the WHM has Relic/Kclub and decent TP/WS sets, and the WHM is capable of taking care of their duties while meleeing, you're increasing your output by converting your healer into half of a DD.

[Zagen]

You're a fan of salvage REWARDS, not salvage.

You're obtuse.

Without rewards, for most players there is no point in doing an event that another player happens to find fun, since salvage can't be soloed without there being rewards to entice a larger player base the odds of being able to do salvage for those who find it fun are slim to none.

[Byrth]

Wasn't the answer to the OP question "yes?" I'm particularly happy with the rewards.


If I was going to complain about new Salvage, my complaints would be:

1) It's too easy.
Original Salvage was something that you and your 5 most skilled friends went and did 5 nights a week for a year. New Salvage is a disappointment on that front, with most zones being multi-box-able.

2) It's too straightforward.
One of the most fun parts of the original Salvage was figuring out spawn conditions, almost all of which were incredibly obscure. It was a community-wide exercise that went on for over a year following release. On one hand, this indicates terrible / frustrating design because it would take players a full run to eliminate one possibility. On the other hand, it was a really exciting challenge that strengthened the online community.

3) The rewards aren't good enough to justify a more challenging event.
I don't know if this is a complaint really, but SE appropriately matched reward difficulty to event difficulty. I do a run in 90 minutes with two mules and get ~100 Alexandrite, 2-4 45 armors, and ~7 "Plans" on average. It takes approximately 7 runs to get one completed armor, and you're never waiting on the 45 to drop after the start. So one Armor per week which requires a time investment of about 11 hours.
In those same 11 hours, you make ~11mil (Alexandrite is 15k each on Lakshmi). 1mil/hr is approximately the gil-farming standard I go by these days, so it meets the requirements to do purely for gil. I'm done the three armors that I really wanted and now I'm messing around with other zones because the gil is good and the armors are just a bonus. This kind of gil-farming event is not a change from what I've been doing elsewhere and really wasn't what I looked forward to in Salvage (see points 1 and 2).


So yes, I think that the rewards are fine for the event that they made. I wish they had made a more difficult event that was true to the original Salvage, but they didn't. Regardless whether or not it's true to the original Salvage, this is still one of the most intricate and rewarding events SE has released in a long time and I enjoy doing it.

[Jaall]

You're obtuse.

Without rewards, for most players there is no point in doing an event that another player happens to find fun, since salvage can't be soloed without there being rewards to entice a larger player base the odds of being able to do salvage for those who find it fun are slim to none.

Luckily for most then it is easy and you only need 4 decent players. People should stop complaining. The rewards are good for the difficulty it offers. You all want an answer - I'm happy with the rewards because although they take 2 WHOLE weeks!! Shock horror that I might have to spend 2 weeks to get some gear! They also offer some nice alternatives compared to NNI gear, which btw isn't "all that". If you use phorcys full set, full time, you're doing it wrong. What do you do for the slots where Phorcys isn't good in tp set? Ohai there Ker's/Ares. Same goes with usu, and skadi's has some nice utility pieces. The rewards are good and justified for the difficulty. If you don't like it, don't do it. Simples.

[Zagen]

Luckily for most then it is easy and you only need 4 decent players. People should stop complaining. The rewards are good for the difficulty it offers. You all want an answer - I'm happy with the rewards because although they take 2 WHOLE weeks!! Shock horror that I might have to spend 2 weeks to get some gear! They also offer some nice alternatives compared to NNI gear, which btw isn't "all that". If you use phorcys full set, full time, you're doing it wrong. What do you do for the slots where Phorcys isn't good in tp set? Ohai there Ker's/Ares. Same goes with usu, and skadi's has some nice utility pieces. The rewards are good and justified for the difficulty. If you don't like it, don't do it. Simples.

What if you can't find 4 or 2 who're good at dualboxing people who happen to want gear from there?

Byrth touched on what would be the all around most appealing and that's Alexanderite. Assuming you're working on a Mythic or happen to need more gil than soloing/duoing Dynamis generates.

Also I hope you aren't serious about arguing "full time NNI gear"...