Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future

[MarkovChain]

Camate wrote:

"As mentioned previously, with the adjustments to the attack/defense ratio, a greater emphasis will be placed on defense. In the event that you jump into battles and pay no attention to your defense, you will take damage for nearly two-times the amount that it is now"

What about counterstance? does the Dev team expect MNKs not to use this most important of JAs anymore?

Counterstance is not being used since blood tanking is the norm (cure V, VI spam yo).

[Rorrick]

Could we get a follow-up on adjustments to Hand-to-hand?

[Helel]

Screw everything else in that post. This would change the game entirely.

That's the point...? Removing level correction will help one-handed DDs out quite a bit. You should at least explain yourself next time, rather than just being scared by change.

[Carth]

That's the point...? Removing level correction will help one-handed DDs out quite a bit. You should at least explain yourself next time, rather than just being scared by change.

I'm... not? I'm actually extremely excited for this change.

Edit: Let me lay out just how huge of a change removing LCF and changing atk/def caps would be.

-DEF/VIT may actually become a useful stat.
-Berserk, Last Resort, Counterstance, and other abilities that lower DEF become (extremely) more dangerous to use.
-BLU's Cocoon becomes useful, and may possibly become overpowered.
-The difference between 1-handed users and 2-handed users in terms of damage becomes less noticeable.

Grouped together, this would be a big step in lessening the dominance of the optimal Zerg strategy. If they revise the Enmity system correctly, this would make PLD useful, and even further, make Turtle PLD an optional build instead of a laughable mess. Enfeebles such as ATK down and Bio would have far more potency for bloodtanking, and DD jobs would have to be more mindful with their defenses (bringing -PDT gear set). All in all, this can be a very positive and exciting change.

Or we can all just go /NIN and blink tank, but hey, at least it's progress.

[Yinnyth]

I could be wrong here, but isn't the real thing that slows people down in nyzul the lamp floors? This doesn't really change the biggest roadblocks in the event (assuming I"m not wrong, which I could be- I don't claim to have spent much time in nyzul)

Lamps are certainly the biggest roadblock. Any other floor which requires you to cover any significant amount of distance in order to clear it will also slow a group down. Killspeed is not so much the problem as finding and completing your objective.

I believe they're not trying to address what causes the biggest slowdowns, however. This sounds more like them trying to make up for the fact that embrava will no longer be on everyone in the group for the entire run. Embrava did far more than simply increase our killspeed through the run though. It's also what kept the DDs alive as they scattered about, picking off or ignoring the weaker enemies along the way. It was also very useful because of how mobile it kept the group.

I, for one, am glad that I've already finished with my nyzul gear.

[Demon6324236]

Embrava did far more than simply increase our killspeed through the run though. It's also what kept the DDs alive as they scattered about, picking off or ignoring the weaker enemies along the way. It was also very useful because of how mobile it kept the group.

In all honesty post nerf NNI will require 4 well geared DDs with PDT sets. Support will be 1 SCH/RDM for Phalanx, Regen, and Boss Zerg Embrava/Buffs/Cures, and 1 BRD with good duration gear and -cast time gear to keep up Marches full time and cast as fast as possible. Those 2 things together basically cover everything that Embrava does right now except for the Regain, and the Regen is weaker as well as the Haste. The Phalanx makes up for the Regen when paired with PDT as it can reduce damage to near 0, and the Regain missing is acceptable, it lowers TP gain a lot but overall kill speed will be good still so long as the Marches are not down for to long during battle I think.

[AndytheRaven]

Counterstance is not being used since blood tanking is the norm (cure V, VI spam yo).

also from wiki:
While this ability is active, the user's defense rating is calculated only using the character's VIT and any bonuses from Minne. Defense bonuses and penalties from any other source (Armor, Job Traits, Protect) will be ignored (however, "Defense down" effects from enemies will still apply).

so wont really effect them, i would think anyways. But then that brings up will monk be able to fulltime counterstance and they take less damage due to it avoiding the same def/atk ratio?

[Motenten]

also from wiki:
While this ability is active, the user's defense rating is calculated only using the character's VIT and any bonuses from Minne. Defense bonuses and penalties from any other source (Armor, Job Traits, Protect) will be ignored (however, "Defense down" effects from enemies will still apply).

so wont really effect them, i would think anyways. But then that brings up will monk be able to fulltime counterstance and they take less damage due to it avoiding the same def/atk ratio?

Counterstance is a 5 minute duration with 5 minute recast, so yes you can fulltime it, unless it gets dispelled.

Things that affect defense by a percentage, such as Berserk and Defender, also apply. But of course +25% defense when you're starting from 50 is pretty meaningless.

It currently works well enough since, compared to Berserked defense, you're only increasing damage taken by maybe 50% (except vs ranged attacks, where it can easily double damage taken), but only taking half as many hits, so it ends up a net positive. With the increase in the Ratio caps, it's liable to double damage taken (similar to ranged attacks) while reducing the number of hits by the same amount, putting you at a net deficit on damage taken for only a small gain in extra damage done.

From their comments, it looks like they're raising the Ratio cap to ~3.5 (enough to 'almost double' the damage a Berserked character might take; 3.5 would be a 75% increase), but removing the level correction (a mob 10 levels above the character would get an extra +0.5, putting them at 2.5 total; 20 levels above would be +1.0, putting them at 3.0; that increase would be going away), meaning a net increase in damage of perhaps 20% to 40%.

Those changes would move Counterstance from being a decent reduction in total damage (in exchange for somewhat greater risk of being one-shot) to being a minor reduction, or even a wash, with a much greater risk level. Given that all these impacts hit at about the point of defense when you have Berserk up, to balance things out on Counterstance you'd have to almost get rid of the defense penalty altogether, and I don't see that as a likely option. It also doesn't 'feel' right. They might have to add some degree of a phalanx- or PDT-like effect in order for it to still be useful for its intended function.

[Zirael]

Regarding enemy's attack/defence adjustments, you are saying that enemies will be able to do more damage to players after you remove 50% Defence floor cap, but to compensate, players will take less damage if they focus on raising their defence. This works out great for Paladin and will make it more risky to use Berserk or Last Resort, but... do you realise Paladin is not the only way to tank things? Some job classes rely on evading attacks (Thief, Dancer, Puppetmaster), shadow images (Ninja) or Phalanx/Utsusemi/PDT (Red Mage) to take less damage. It looks to me like ATK/DEF changes will cause those tanking classes to take more damage after removing 50% DEF cap, since they were designed to mitigate damage in a different way than rising DEF, and can wear light or cloth armor only.

As it stands, all enemies have minimum 20% accuracy against players, regardless of level difference, and enemies Tough+ (especially bosses) reach capped accuracy very fast regardless of players using Evasion+ equipment, Corsair Rolls and Bard Songs. Also, as a Thief, I wouldn't even dream of evading any TP move in Legion or Neo Einherjar at all. What is the reason for all those Evasion Bonus job traits I have, again?

If now I take 1000 damage from Enraged Hydra's Serpentine Tail/Trembling, how much damage will I take after the ATK/DEF change? Also, good luck keeping your shadows up against something like cloned Arch Dynamis Lord's 2-3x Dynamis Implosion/Tera Slash or Borulus Rex's (AoE TP moves, AoE magic fast cast).

What about backline jobs? White Mages, Scholars, Bards, Summonners etc don't usually sub Warrior for Defender and usually have something like 200-300 Defence in Refresh gear. Or even PDT gear. What will happen when they get hit by enemy due to AoE (Yagrush/Auspice WHM meeling in the front lines; a BRD, SMN or SCH whilst applying AoE buff), reaching hate cap (SCH or RDM Cure4 spam), hate reset or tank dying?

I would like enemy accuracy, cap of PDT equipment, cap of Phalanx, defence rating of light/cloth armor revised.
Change to AoE damage on anyone but primary target (players and pets) doing much less damage is overdue.
Reducing AoE range on things like Tera Slash, Fulmination or Meteor is even more overdue.

[Yinnyth]

As it stands, all enemies have minimum 20% accuracy against players

I might be a little out of date on this, but I was under the impression that the minimum and maximum success rate for almost every check in the game is 5% and 95%, respectively. This most likely being inspired by Dungeons and Dragons' D20 behavior where rolling a 1 is considered a critical failure where even the world's most skilled warrior trips, drops his blade, and falls with his exposed neck squarely on the pointiest part.

I personally agree with many of the points you raise, however. I also hope they examine the other methods used for tanking, and reconsider the failure/success rate cap.