Is anyone particularly happy with the new gear from New Salvage?

[saevel]

If a job's damage is heavily reliant on weapon skills, they'll want either faster TP or better weapon skills, not a focus on white damage, so whatever parses better will be better.

Can't change the parses. I'm sure many White Mages would like a better offhand so they could sell the Kraken Club or stop trying to get one, but until something changes, it's still shown to be king by the numbers.

*Slams head on desk*

DW would make K.Club more valuable not less, especially as it's 11 DMG makes it an incredibly low DPS weapon and whatever WS's you get off will be equally as low.

Native DW / DA /TA gear has absolutely nothing to do with it. A PLD has an A- club skill, no native DW and access to the best club ws (RR) and K.Club still sucks. Get off the K.Club boat, it sucks, it kinda sucked at 75 (except DRK zergling or RNG spamming) and really sucks at 99. Your feeding your target an insane amount of TP for very little damage return and thus necessitating more healing (less melee time). The only time the "TP feed" argument doesn't hold water is when your in a party with a dedicated healer, seeing as this is about WHM Winja, then we can assume you are your own healer. You would do more damage, feed less TP and require less healing if you used a STR club, there is even a strong argument for a PDT club.

If you have acc issues on a DC ~ T monster ... I'm gonna laugh very very hard.

[saevel]

Just for some comparisons here.

99 Mjollnir
DMG: 93 Rank 10 (18 cap fSTR cap)
Delay: 308
Raw DPS: 18.11, fSTR cap DPS: 21.62
Attack +40
3x damage on first hit with 13% proc rate.
Occasionally restores MP on hit

Tutunui
DMG: 52 Rank 5 (13 fSTR cap)
Delay 210
Raw DPS: 14.85, fSTR cap DPS: 18.57
STR +11
Attack +22 (27.5)

Tahtib
DMG: 37, rank 4 (12 fSTR cap)
Delay: 340
2~4 hits (40/30/20/10 distribution for 2.0 average per round)
Raw DPS: 13.05, fSTR cap DPS: 17.29

That's without touching the fact that STR club gives you +2.75 fSTR and +27.5 attack. At 0 DA (you'll always have at least 5 from brutal) STR club easily beats out 2~4 club. None of the 2~4x weapons are good due to low proc rates.

Kraken Club
DMG: 11, rank 1 (9 fSTR cap)
Delay: 265
hits 2~8x (2:5:20:23:23:20:5:2 distribution for 3.82 per round)
Raw DPS: 9.55, fSTR cap DPS: 17.28

As above both the STR club and the 2~4 club beat out the K.Club for DPS, without counting STR / Attack. K.Club attacks 3.82 times per attack round for an average TP gain of 26.74 per attack round. 2~4 club is 17.7 Tp per attack around and 8.08 TP per attack round. Those numbers are without counting the 30% DW that you should be using.

We can go deeper by combining Mjol with each and factoring out DPS but it gets sketchy depending on your target. Overall STR beats out everything with K.Club and 2~4 jocking for 2nd depending on situation. The 2~4's stupid delay and low proc rate are what make it tend to rank 3rd, KC's obscenely low base DMG are what prevent it from being first, even after counting for additional TP gain. Remember these weapons are paired with a high damage main hand that lowers their TP gain rate, that's why RNG's and DRK's would single wield them. RNG for high damage cannon spam, DRK for SEBW zerging (don't ever WS).

Side Note,
Something that has been glossed over is how deficient WHM is in attack. Not having native DW and being forced to /NIN or /DNC means no access to Berserk. Even accounting for Dia II the WHM will only be capping ratio on the really weak EP monsters. Anything level ~80 (~350 defense) or higher your not capping on. A 99 Taru WHM/NIN is looking at 80 base STR, adding on 12 for merits puts them at 92 base STR. To get +9 fSTR your going to need 36 dSTR (72 dSTR for Mjol), that same ~80 monster will have approx 75 VIT really easy to cap fSTR on the KC but not Mjol. DC Dyna mob has about 430 defense and 95 VIT, things just got much harder. Hit the 99 EM monster and your talking 516 defense and 118 VIT, good luck on that ratio and fSTR caps. This is why the STR magian weapons are so powerful, DW jobs are effected by fSTR more so then 2H jobs and DW jobs rarely have access to high attack values. This becomes and ever bigger issue for jobs that can't get Berserk and DWIII at the same time (PLD,BST,RDM,WHM,BRD) as their now lacking the single biggest attack buff JA in the game.

[Yenecol]

While you guys still decide the value of the whm pieces, I have come to realize why I am so pissed off at the Salvage gear. Just look at Sigyn's cuirie. This is the "casual" skadi body piece. Here are the stats: DEF:63 Accuracy+15 Ranged Accuracy+15 "Subtle Blow"+5 "Triple Attack"+3% Haste+4%
LV 99 THF BST RNG COR DNC

Now I am going to quote Curty from the FFXIAH since he said it perfectly, "Thaumas body obviously outdoes this for thf rng cor and dnc. Very minimal upgrade over porthos for bst assuming you can cut back on one haste and still be capped."

Oh, but Sigyn is casual content. Neo-nyzul is hardcore, right? All I have to do it pay 10mil to one of the groups doing constant runs and I can get myself that Thaumas coat is one run, one day. For the Sigyn, no matter how much gil you have or how super awesome l33t your group is, you need 15 umbrages. I get 3, maybe 4 umbrages from doing Arrapago Remnants II. So, I would need around 4-5 runs to get this piece (actually would need to do Zhayolm since that is where the Idi's Jerkin drops but you get my point). Let's say I already had a permit from before and I could do two Salvage runs in a row, it would still take me minimum of 3 days to get this piece. Sure, that doesn't sound too bad but again, I could get that Thaumus coat in 1 run, 1 day. And THAT is why am I annoy and THAT is why I have so much trouble getting people for Salvage - people realize they can get better gear faster doing Neo-Nyzul.

And remember, that was just for the new gear. To +1 a body, you are talking 50 of those damn plans. The rewards do not match the amount of work involved!

[Demon6324236]

When you factor in many of the groups which sell cheat in some form, they charge 10 Mil(high price for a lot of people, especially casual players) and the event itself is highly luck based, Salvage does not look all that bad in difficulty.

Though in a way, I agree, Salvage is asking you spend a lot of time and multiple runs, killing a boss at the end of which drops random gear, no 100% chance at what you want like with NNI, and also need plans, which are needed in high amounts for some gear which is fairly bad.

For instance the Skadi +1 feet. I understand its 18% move speed, which is awesome, some jobs like BST only have the Skadi feet for move speed anyways, so its really important. But the stats on the gear besides the move speed is terrible, only some STR, VIT, and Accuracy, stats we don't need in that slot anyways. Yet for these feet, 40 plans, at least about 10 runs.

The Skadi body, Dual Wield +7%, awesome, but guess what, Thaumas is still better, and it does not require 50 plans or anything like it, only 1 run from start to finish of NNI to floor 100, or just 5 to floor 80. Even shooting for floor 80 you will sooner see the Thaumas body than the Skadi.

I somewhat agree with you, that NNI gear is easier in some ways and Salvage gear does not live up to the work needed by compare. However I understand at the same time where SE was going with this, and why they made it how they did. The main difference I see personally between the two events for myself is that I never looked forward to doing NNI because it was a bunch of luck and annoyance at failures. However now I look forward to running Neo-Salvage on a daily basis because its fun, and we almost always kill the boss, leaving so sense of failure like with NNI, and a sense of progression which NNI also lacked because even if you do fail at the end, you walk away with some plans and some alexandrites.

[Yenecol]

Though in a way, I agree, Salvage is asking you spend a lot of time and multiple runs, killing a boss at the end of which drops random gear, no 100% chance at what you want like with NNI, and also need plans, which are needed in high amounts for some gear which is fairly bad.

For instance the Skadi +1 feet. I understand its 18% move speed, which is awesome, some jobs like BST only have the Skadi feet for move speed anyways, so its really important. But the stats on the gear besides the move speed is terrible, only some STR, VIT, and Accuracy, stats we don't need in that slot anyways. Yet for these feet, 40 plans, at least about 10 runs.

The Skadi body, Dual Wield +7%, awesome, but guess what, Thaumas is still better, and it does not require 50 plans or anything like it, only 1 run from start to finish of NNI to floor 100, or just 5 to floor 80. Even shooting for floor 80 you will sooner see the Thaumas body than the Skadi.

I somewhat agree with you, that NNI gear is easier in some ways and Salvage gear does not live up to the work needed by compare.

You definitely agree with me enough. You added nicely to the points I was trying to make.

[saevel]

When you factor in many of the groups which sell cheat in some form, they charge 10 Mil(high price for a lot of people, especially casual players) and the event itself is highly luck based, Salvage does not look all that bad in difficulty.

Though in a way, I agree, Salvage is asking you spend a lot of time and multiple runs, killing a boss at the end of which drops random gear, no 100% chance at what you want like with NNI, and also need plans, which are needed in high amounts for some gear which is fairly bad.

For instance the Skadi +1 feet. I understand its 18% move speed, which is awesome, some jobs like BST only have the Skadi feet for move speed anyways, so its really important. But the stats on the gear besides the move speed is terrible, only some STR, VIT, and Accuracy, stats we don't need in that slot anyways. Yet for these feet, 40 plans, at least about 10 runs.

The Skadi body, Dual Wield +7%, awesome, but guess what, Thaumas is still better, and it does not require 50 plans or anything like it, only 1 run from start to finish of NNI to floor 100, or just 5 to floor 80. Even shooting for floor 80 you will sooner see the Thaumas body than the Skadi.

I somewhat agree with you, that NNI gear is easier in some ways and Salvage gear does not live up to the work needed by compare. However I understand at the same time where SE was going with this, and why they made it how they did. The main difference I see personally between the two events for myself is that I never looked forward to doing NNI because it was a bunch of luck and annoyance at failures. However now I look forward to running Neo-Salvage on a daily basis because its fun, and we almost always kill the boss, leaving so sense of failure like with NNI, and a sense of progression which NNI also lacked because even if you do fail at the end, you walk away with some plans and some alexandrites.

They designed Salvage II gear for those people unable to hit the lottery with NNI. Remember when NNI gear was originally designed you were never expected to actually get it. It was the carrot at the end of Tanaka's infinitely retractable stick. That people figured out ways to circumvent SE's stick and just cut the carrot off wasn't planned for, that's the only reason NNI gear became anywhere near as achievable as it is now. They looked to remove two of the methods used to cut the string, first being that order lamps are now server side, second being the Embrava nerf (that hasn't yet happened). They also looked into putting a spring into the retractable stick, the stick's retractability is a bit more random, but that randomness as been weighted a bit more towards the player. Finally the made farming the pieces by less random means a bit more realistic (floor 80 farming). Honestly you were expected to use the +3 items and hope for a floor 100 item.

[Jaall]

Sorry all because I'm probably gonna annoy a lot of you by saying this... Why has final fantasy dropped so low as to be like WoW where if you don't have the best gear you're not accepted as a good player? Yes I admit the game is past it's sell by date, and it's a free for all to keep it alive with all the zerging content, but damn! They finally remake endgame that isn't just a zerg fest and is, in my opinion, 100x more fun than neo nyzul isle and here you all are slating SE for bringing back content that needs a little bit of strategy.

Salvage is easy with higher numbers but what makes it more fun is the challenge of defeating a HQ boss with 4 people and still having time to spare. Also planning the drops you want and choosing the paths, completing the requirements for nm pops etc, this is what final fantasy was always about. Why are so many people slaughtering SE for this content? Yes the gear isn't game breaking but it's still good if you get the right pieces and compared to 75 days it doesn't even take remotely long. Get a grip guys, people need to get back to playing for fun because isn't that what games are for, even mmo's?

[Zagen]

Why has final fantasy dropped so low as to be like WoW where if you don't have the best gear you're not accepted as a good player?

Did you miss the days of Scorpion Harness/Haubergeon or GTFO?

[Demon6324236]

Sorry all because I'm probably gonna annoy a lot of you by saying this... Why has final fantasy dropped so low as to be like WoW where if you don't have the best gear you're not accepted as a good player? Yes I admit the game is past it's sell by date, and it's a free for all to keep it alive with all the zerging content, but damn! They finally remake endgame that isn't just a zerg fest and is, in my opinion, 100x more fun than neo nyzul isle and here you all are slating SE for bringing back content that needs a little bit of strategy.

Salvage is easy with higher numbers but what makes it more fun is the challenge of defeating a HQ boss with 4 people and still having time to spare. Also planning the drops you want and choosing the paths, completing the requirements for nm pops etc, this is what final fantasy was always about. Why are so many people slaughtering SE for this content? Yes the gear isn't game breaking but it's still good if you get the right pieces and compared to 75 days it doesn't even take remotely long. Get a grip guys, people need to get back to playing for fun because isn't that what games are for, even mmo's?

While I agree with you to a point, the reason people complain is because most of the gear from it is not as good as gear from Nyzul, while that gear takes longer. It gives less reason to do the event, making it harder to find people and in return, making the event less fun. In my opinion part of what makes an event fun is the ability to jump into it not long after choosing its what you want to do. Instead, I have been doing Neo-Salvage with a friend and we shout for people each day, sometimes it takes only about a hour, other times it can take 10 hours. I have little to no doubt that if it had better gear to offer, more people would shout for it, join our shouts, or at least be interested in the event, instead of it taking hours to fill up a 5 man group.

[Jaall]

FFXI has never been this bad for good gear or gtfo, and yes I was around back when it was hauby/scorp harness or gtfo but that wasn't enforced as much as it is now and you could still do most endgame without them. Now 90% of endgame requires them either because players are stubborn or the event really does require great gear.

I agree that it can be annoying finding people but even compared to the old 75 days, it usually doesn't take as long as it took to find a party back then. And you could always make a static, ideally content like this is designed for people to keep at it with the same group, to work through tactics and setups. Also I never said people stop complaining because they can't find people, that's fair enough, I said stop complaining because the gear isn't game breaking like neo nyzul isle (which btw is a lot harder so it makes a lot of sense to be better, even if it can be obtained in 1 day).