Buff Other Support jobs

[Demon6324236]

So by that extend all DD gears/relic/empy/mythic should be obtainable by everyone right?

What's wrong with certain gear/spell not everyone can get? They didn't even say "most" player can't get it, only said "not everyone" can get it. There isn't anything wrong that hardcore, dedicated BRD stands out and performs better than a bandwagon BRD who lv the job and sing half naked.

People who gear their jobs properly already out perform those who do not. A Relic or Emp BRD will surpass a half naked gimp BRD by far, the same goes for if the BRD has the proper gear for each song, and if the BRD has the gear for debuffing. All jobs are like this for the most part, if you gear it well it will do better than anyone who is gimply gearing it, you showing your a good player for a job should not come down to you having a rare spell or something similar that people often don't have. Just because a BLM has Meteor, doesn't mean its a good BLM, and just because a BLM doesn't have Meteor, doesn't mean they are a bad BLM.

[Mirage]

Yes. While it is true that there should be some differences between the really good bards/othersupportjobs, there is plenty of room for this through gear. Even with the same songs, a daurd/gjallar BRD is going to outperform a BRD without those by a very significant margin. There's no need to further divide the gap by adding exclusive songs as well.

[Protey]

i think they should make Haste2 and March3 obtainable through some epic quests. Not luck based. When I say epic, I mean very time consuming with a profound storyline, and make it an ex scroll so can't be sold. That way only the most devoted of BRD or RDM will obtain it and you will be guaranteed to get it if you put the time into it (vice VW drops where it is not guaranteed). Plus... quests are fun!

[Mirage]

I'd rather have that than 0.1% drops from 18-man events.

[Camiie]

So by that extend all DD gears/relic/empy/mythic should be obtainable by everyone right?

Here we go with the "They might as well just mail everyone mythics if they don't make items with sub-1% drop rates in battles that only 1% of the players can win 15% of the time."

What's wrong with certain gear/spell not everyone can get?

Gear is one thing. When they start making spells that everyone will be expected to have, but not everyone will be able to obtain, then they've taken exclusivity too far IMO.

They didn't even say "most" player can't get it, only said "not everyone" can get it.

You know darn well what they mean. They've used this terminology before and we see what it's led to.

There isn't anything wrong that hardcore, dedicated BRD stands out and performs better than a bandwagon BRD who lv the job and sing half naked.

That's a very extreme comparison. No one is talking about half-naked BRDs compared to well-geared BRDs. This new tier of March will lead to perfectly deserving BRDs being left out in the cold for no other reason than they don't have the spell. This isn't like Meteor or Arise where no one will really care. March is part of a BRD's bread and butter.

[Afania]

Here we go with the "They might as well just mail everyone mythics if they don't make items with sub-1% drop rates in battles that only 1% of the players can win 15% of the time."



Gear is one thing. When they start making spells that everyone will be expected to have, but not everyone will be able to obtain, then they've taken exclusivity too far IMO.



You know darn well what they mean. They've used this terminology before and we see what it's led to.



That's a very extreme comparison. No one is talking about half-naked BRDs compared to well-geared BRDs. This new tier of March will lead to perfectly deserving BRDs being left out in the cold for no other reason than they don't have the spell. This isn't like Meteor or Arise where no one will really care. March is part of a BRD's bread and butter.

So if Meteor/Arise nobody really care, why piss off if not everyone has it?

Newer march will likely save extra song slot, so in the end it's gonna perform the same as empy/relic BRD. Whether it's expected to have or not is depend on the percentage of ppl that has it, like every other gears. DDs are expected to have relic/empy is because many ppl has it too.

Honestly, I see no difference between "not everyone can get" weapons and "not everyone can get" spells.

People who gear their jobs properly already out perform those who do not. A Relic or Emp BRD will surpass a half naked gimp BRD by far, the same goes for if the BRD has the proper gear for each song, and if the BRD has the gear for debuffing. All jobs are like this for the most part, if you gear it well it will do better than anyone who is gimply gearing it, you showing your a good player for a job should not come down to you having a rare spell or something similar that people often don't have. Just because a BLM has Meteor, doesn't mean its a good BLM, and just because a BLM doesn't have Meteor, doesn't mean they are a bad BLM.

Meteor doesn't make a difference for BLM's performance because currently there are no optimal strategy that involved meteor BLMs. Like how there are situational gears that's pretty much useless to have too....I can argue that a Rag DRK with no apoc isn't bad compare with another rag+apoc DRK in current endgame event too. Honestly I see no difference between a rare and useful spell and a rare and useful gear.

[Afania]

Putting aside the fact that all those empy/relic blah blah items actually are obtainable by everyone through varying degrees of effort which is calculable beyond random chance.....

How exactly does bashing your head against the same wall repeatedly hoping that today might be your lucky day reflect in any way your dedication to any job in this game? What a ridiculous thought. My corsair who's only existence is to attempt to get gear from VW for my thief and yet never has any "luck" with any relevant gear regardless of the time consumed and effort put forth would like a word.

I like fun in my video games, not arbitrary barriers.

Unless Camate is misrepresenting the plan, suggesting "not everyone" stinks a lot of arbitrary randomness, not dedication.

Every rare spell currently exists is just as obtainable, if not more obtainable than any relic/empy. Try again.

Math: Relic costs 110M on my server, Meteor/Arise, the spell that made BLMs and WHMs cried only cost less than 11M. Every other spells are cheaper than that. Relic is 10 times more expensive and you argue that relic is obtainable with effort, while spells are not? If you can afford a relic, you can afford 10 meteor/arise.

[Camiie]

So if Meteor/Arise nobody really care, why piss off if not everyone has it?

I already told you. Those spells don't matter because they aren't perceived as necessary for basic functionality. March will be. Players will expect every BRD to have it, no matter how unrealistic that expectation is.

Newer march will likely save extra song slot, so in the end it's gonna perform the same as empy/relic BRD. Whether it's expected to have or not is depend on the percentage of ppl that has it, like every other gears. DDs are expected to have relic/empy is because many ppl has it too.

No it's not going to be based on how many people have it. It's going to be based on how effective the song is calculated to be.

Honestly, I see no difference between "not everyone can get" weapons and "not everyone can get" spells.

What can I say other than I think it's a step too far? It's a philosophy I disagree with. Rare, nigh unobtainable, gear is normal. Nigh unobtainable spells are not. You don't see a difference, but I see a huge one.

Meteor doesn't make a difference for BLM's performance because currently there are no optimal strategy that involved meteor BLMs. Like how there are situational gears that's pretty much useless to have too....I can argue that a Rag DRK with no apoc isn't bad compare with another rag+apoc DRK in current endgame event too. Honestly I see no difference between a rare and useful spell and a rare and useful gear.

March is situational? March is useless? In a day when warp scrolls are practically free, Warp II is situational and useless. Oh, but every BLM is expected to have it. If the new March allows a BRD to sing a set of songs that are even 1% better than what they could before, every BRD will be expected to have it no matter how rare it is. You and SE just don't understand human nature.

[saevel]

Looking at the attitudes over at the land of the azure underwear, if you don't have a 99 G.horn with an Empy Harp then your some sort of scrub BRD.

So yes if SE made "March III" extremely stupid and restrictive, then it would suddenly be used as an exclusionary mark.

/shout <Insert Event Here> March III BRD <Can I have It> and all that jazz.

[Zagen]

I already told you. Those spells don't matter because they aren't perceived as necessary for basic functionality. March will be. Players will expect every BRD to have it, no matter how unrealistic that expectation is.



No it's not going to be based on how many people have it. It's going to be based on how effective the song is calculated to be.

Unless March 3 and/or Haste 2 allow surpassing the magical haste cap neither will likely be "OMG you're gimp for not having X spell" types of spells. March 3 if it follows the same increase will give 12.5% haste. A 99 Relic BRD with +2 hands you'd be giving 20.5% so far from cap, Haste 2 would have to provide 23% haste to be able to cap magical haste with these 2 spells. While I don't think an 8% increase to haste is unrealistic with the way things are going I doubt the devs would think that to be balanced for a non-SP spell.