PUP JA Suggestion - Maneuver x3

[Helyos]

As a pup i find it very frustrating that there are several attachments that really dont shine unless you have 3 of the same maneuver up. Some of these attachment abilities are used the moment you Deploy your automaton or use the maneuver, therefore if you want the full benefit of the attachment, you have to keep your automaton in idle in the mean time. (ie: Heat Capacitor, Ice Maker, Barrage Turbine, Flame Holder)

Therefore, im suggesting an ability that can instantaneously make the next maneuver you use put up 3 of the same maneuver. Could be something like this

Maneuver Maxima: Grants three maneuver effects of the next maneuver you use.
Recast: 5min (I'd prefer 3 but wouldn't mind 5 if the 'overpowered card' is to be played)

Also seeing to how this could be overpowered, make the risk of Overload the same as spamming the 3 maneuvers in a row. Probably would want to use Cooldown and macro in your overload threshold gear before using this.

I didn't see any kind of ability like this suggested on the pup page yet, so if it does exist can someone put up a URL?

Otherwise, thoughts?

[Dragonlord]

The simplest, and least "overpowered" way to achieve this, is just reduce maneuver recast time to 0. The 10 second wait kills pup's melee potential, chaining JAs like dnc can would add 3 seconds of attacking time every minute to pup's output. And the pup wouldn't have a gimp automaton sitting around while waiting 10-20 seconds for the other maneuvers to be ready. The 10sec cooldown is based around 75 content. At 99, it needs this to maintain any sort of advantage over other jobs.

[Karbuncle]

I've made this suggestion before, Rather, something very similar... I hope you don't end up with a bump on your head from facedesking like i did after reading some of what i got.

[Kristal]

The simplest, and least "overpowered" way to achieve this, is just reduce maneuver recast time to 0. The 10 second wait kills pup's melee potential, chaining JAs like dnc can would add 3 seconds of attacking time every minute to pup's output. And the pup wouldn't have a gimp automaton sitting around while waiting 10-20 seconds for the other maneuvers to be ready. The 10sec cooldown is based around 75 content. At 99, it needs this to maintain any sort of advantage over other jobs.

It would also make Overload a realistic occurance again, so it comes with it's own auto-balance.
But don't get your hopes up. The devs are just too busy figuring out which mage gear to give to PUP next. More -melee +magic stuff, you know.

[Dragonlord]

It would also make Overload a realistic occurance again, so it comes with it's own auto-balance.
But don't get your hopes up. The devs are just too busy figuring out which mage gear to give to PUP next. More -melee +magic stuff, you know.

Exactly, there's already a balance in the amount of maneuvers you can put up in a period of time. There's no need to double restrict it. I pretty much never play pup anymore because its bested in almost every situation. We just have to keep throwing logic at the devs and disregard the half-baked excuses that are usually returned.

Its a simple fix, logical fix, balanced fix... just fix it.

[Helyos]

I like your idea alot Dragonlord. Alot more than my idea unless SE comes on here and tells us exactly why they feel we need a 10 second cool down.

If this were implemented, I think the Overload formula would need to be reworked. From my understanding, the longer you wait in between maneuvers the less likely you are to Overload. It's possible that if the formula were not reworked, the instant recast would do us more harm than good.

A simple fix, in my opinion. But just throwing it out there so we all know we're being careful what we wish for.

And just wondering, has a dev ever responded to anything on the pup thread? Like ever?

[Mayoyama]

These days I basically never overload.. even when spamming the same element (i think ice is only one i have overloaded on and even then only once or twice) and I dont even bother having "Cooldown" macroed since i never have use of it.... Cirque +2 body, AF hands and buffoon collar (if you want to be real old school lol) have basically made overloading non existant (not that I am complaining lol but it does take away a bit of the challenge it used to have)

I wouldnt be opposed in having a lower recast with a slightly higher overload rate as "balance" (making kenkonken's overload bonus more relevant also)

[Helyos]

These days I basically never overload.. even when spamming the same element (i think ice is only one i have overloaded on and even then only once or twice) and I dont even bother having "Cooldown" macroed since i never have use of it.... Cirque +2 body, AF hands and buffoon collar (if you want to be real old school lol) have basically made overloading non existant (not that I am complaining lol but it does take away a bit of the challenge it used to have)

I wouldnt be opposed in having a lower recast with a slightly higher overload rate as "balance" (making kenkonken's overload bonus more relevant also)

Woah woah let's slow down. Let's make Kenkonken actually ATTAINABLE in a relative amount of time before it becomes a staple piece.

[Dragonlord]

If this were implemented, I think the Overload formula would need to be reworked. From my understanding, the longer you wait in between maneuvers the less likely you are to Overload. It's possible that if the formula were not reworked, the instant recast would do us more harm than good.

And just wondering, has a dev ever responded to anything on the pup thread? Like ever?

They have responded, mostly for where they were reworking automaton AI and changed some attachment's affects around.

Overload works like this; Each element has its own overload number (think of this like a bar graph). When you use a maneuver, that element's bar increases. There's a horizontal line on the graph where there is the possibility of overloading. Just passing the line has a small chance to overload, and adding more to that element increases the chance of overload.

Gear that reduces chance overload actually reduces the rate at which these element bars grow. These decrease at a set rate, which is why timing maneuvers of the same element is important (such as ice for nuking). So basically this overload formula is set up in a way that the pup can not abuse single element boons.

Rationale behind the 10 second wait; at 75, this was understandable. A 3 ice maneuver, ice maker attached auto could out-nuke a blm. A smart pup using SS frame and flame holder + 3 fire maneuvers could out-WS any other jobs (when counting both pup and auto's WS) against colibri or other piercing weak targets. There's also the replicator which can grant 4 blink shadows (a very strong tanking tactic with ducal guard atma).

At level 99; due to mp regeneration, blms can out-nuke pup with AH gear now. Other jobs have massive gains in dps, far above what the new VE/SS frame's WS can make up for. And blink tanking is practically useless baring a few situations. These niche abilities pup had that made it momentarily good are no longer beyond the realm of other jobs. As such, the need for the 10 second timer is gone. All it does now is hinder the job's dps and restricts it from being any sort of efficient at a support/DD role through other frames.

[Helyos]

At level 99; due to mp regeneration, blms can out-nuke pup with AH gear now. Other jobs have massive gains in dps, far above what the new VE/SS frame's WS can make up for. And blink tanking is practically useless baring a few situations. These niche abilities pup had that made it momentarily good are no longer beyond the realm of other jobs. As such, the need for the 10 second timer is gone. All it does now is hinder the job's dps and restricts it from being any sort of efficient at a support/DD role through other frames.

And let's not forget SE made it very unwise to take full advantage of Flame Holder's effect by making other maneuvers the determinant for better automaton WSs. PLUS, all of these abilities are on cooldown timers. SE really wouldn't be giving us that much of an advantage. It just sounds like common sense to me.