Turialon's Complain about the unsocial EMPY upgrades

[Shadowsong]

Or play one with less pointless nonsense.

Correct, you can leave anytime you want.

[Camiie]

However all of this talk about how low the rates are I'm not understanding, personally when I do qilin out of every 6 I'm getting one pouch most every time, and as far as t3 go it's almost always a single metal if no body.

Even with 3x rubicund cells and maxed red every fight, I'm not seeing a pouch once every 6 fights or a plate almost every fight. Your numbers are abnormally high in my experience. I don't doubt you're getting them, I just don't think your experience matches everyone else.

Obviously lots of people don't find it pointless because lots of people are able to finish it, and bother doing so. It's clear you're only complaining because you can't/don't want to finish it.

How many people is "lots?"

[Demon6324236]

Out of my last 18 Qilin, I have gotten 1 pouch. I am doing more today, Ill see how many I get since I will be spamming it all day, so you can see my rate at getting them, also I have all KIs/use Rubis which not everyone will have anyways, so numbers should be good I would think.

[Calysto]

However all of this talk about how low the rates are I'm not understanding, personally when I do qilin out of every 6 I'm getting one pouch most every time, and as far as t3 go it's almost always a single metal if no body.

i did dozens of quilin, and probably more than a hundred jeuno T3 (not always but often using cells)...
...yet, i never got any hmp or pouch...

aside from that lack of luck, i agree the hmp trial shouldn't be that hard. now relics are clearly easyer to get to 99 than empyreans, and while mytics are still hard(as it require nyzul/assault/eineinjar/salvage/etc), the alexandrite are somewhat easy to farm(get 2 ppl, do salvage and you'll get some) ans neo salvage will probably help too.

this trial make you have a weapon lv.90 that can be somewhat worse than one lv.99 you can buy from ah

so either lower the trial(unlikely) or increase the drops of hmp
-why do jeuno t4/5 don't drop hmp while t3/6 do ?
-why tav/aht urgan t2 and jeuno t6 don't drop pouchs instead of single ?
-why all my hmp are logs or rocks ?

[Zhronne]

Out of my last 18 Qilin, I have gotten 1 pouch. I am doing more today, Ill see how many I get since I will be spamming it all day, so you can see my rate at getting them, also I have all KIs/use Rubis which not everyone will have anyways, so numbers should be good I would think.

I didn't see a single pouch in roughly 56 Qilin runs (all maxed up).
I started wondering if drop rates were reduced since a few months ago (before Provenance was added)

Then in the last 18 runs I got two pouches.
Yai!!

Still no Coruscanti, but I'm only 0/250ish atm, I know some people 0/700 so no right to complain, do I?

[Kincard]

It's not uncommon to see at least one single plate on a T3 run, but getting a pouch every 6 Qilin runs would be pretty lucky.

How many people is "lots?"

Hundreds...Just take a look at the census, it's right there for you to see if you are so inclined. There's at least 200 99 Ukons floating around. Sure, you could argue that there's way more 99 relics floating around, but that's also because about half the work for relics goes into the first finished form, with about the other half being the marrows, so there was already a lot of finished relics ready to be upgraded when the 95/99 trials were introduced.

And if you compare that to mythics...there's like, 70 99 Burtgangs. Actually there's only about 400 99 Mythics total.

So the point to be made here is that there isn't much of a difference between the relic and empyrean difficulty in reaching 99. If your argument is that Empyreans should be easy to get to 99...well, I hate to break it to you, but it's clear that from the absurd amount of plates they required that they intended it to be difficult/annoying/"pointless" to get a empyrean past level 90.

The only two reasons I can see to be angry that you can't finish a 90 Empyrean is that you are OCD about having it "half-done", so to speak, or you think the weapon has fallen behind other, easier-to-obtain options because of the block HMP has caused. Well the latter is pretty much false (Barring maybe Caladbolg), and the former...well, if you're so determined to finish the weapon, it's obvious you should weigh your options and decide whether or not its worth your time. And if you don't think so...that was kind of the point.

Stuff

So basically you're saying you weighed the opportunity cost and decided to gear your DRK instead of completing your RDM? That's great, that's precisely what I did- except I chose the other option. How is this a problem with the trial itself?

[Demon6324236]

So basically you're saying you weighed the opportunity cost and decided to gear your DRK instead of completing your RDM? That's great, that's precisely what I did- except I chose the other option. How is this a problem with the trial itself?

There isn't alot of incentive to make 1 job a little better by adding a few levels to a single weapon, instead of making an entirely new weapon instead and getting it to the exact same level, while taking less overall money & work. To make an Emp to 90 takes probably about 5 times longer than the trials for a Relic after you obtain it at 75. The money to make an Emp go that extra mile to 95 is a big 150+Mil, while to obtain a Base Relic is 120~130Mil. So Relics are easier to get to 95 by default, and cheaper, there is almost no incentive to make an Emp 95~99 because of that cost. A WAR could make Ukon 95, or they could just make a Rag 95, and get that for MS & Reso, DRKs could get themselves a lv95 Calad, or instead, make Apoc so they have a good Scythe, or better yet, Rag. SAM could make Masa95, or instead a Relic GK or Bow. I made Excalibur, rather than Almace95, the list goes on.

Making an Emp95 is not a bad idea, but its not something I see as a good idea either. Its not only a choice between 1 job or another, but in weapons as I said with a DRK, between a Calad95 or a Rag95, with Apoc as well, and a SAM with the same questions. In my opinion, Emps should not be the same as Relics, they messed that up already. Emps start easy, and once they get to 90, they hit a wall, thats when most start on a Relic, and use the Emps as hold overs.

[Shadowsong]

Ill repeat the question;
Just because YOU chose to spread the love between your jobs and weapon types, why is this a problem with the Trials?
So you are telling me its more effort to fully complete a job than it is to go half way? SHOCKING!

[Demon6324236]

Ok, the reason its a problem is because it often leads to Emps becoming a stepping stone, leaving the later trials meaningless and untouched. Looking at Emps only 3 are worth taking to 99, Vere, Ukon, and Gandiva. Other than them, there is almost no reason to take an Emp to 99 because the Relics are simply better thanks to Merit WSs. So to answer the question, what is the problem with the trials? Its that in most cases, it is not worth the effort to do the trials, because an easier weapon can be made which is more beneficial to you anyways.

Edit:Sorry, Arma is worth it as well I suppose.

[Camiie]

Hundreds...Just take a look at the census, it's right there for you to see if you are so inclined. There's at least 200 99 Ukons floating around.

That's not lots, IMO.

Sure, you could argue that there's way more 99 relics floating around, but that's also because about half the work for relics goes into the first finished form, with about the other half being the marrows, so there was already a lot of finished relics ready to be upgraded when the 95/99 trials were introduced.

And if you compare that to mythics...there's like, 70 99 Burtgangs. Actually there's only about 400 99 Mythics total.

So the point to be made here is that there isn't much of a difference between the relic and empyrean difficulty in reaching 99.

They're totally different processes. They don't need to be balanced against or compared to each other.

If your argument is that Empyreans should be easy to get to 99...well, I hate to break it to you, but it's clear that from the absurd amount of plates they required that they intended it to be difficult/annoying/"pointless" to get a empyrean past level 90.

I know what they intended. I'm saying the intentions themselves are wrong. Just because it's "working as intended" according to SE, doesn't make it right. The devs can be just as wrong as anyone, and they often are.

The only two reasons I can see to be angry that you can't finish a 90 Empyrean is that you are OCD about having it "half-done", so to speak, or you think the weapon has fallen behind other, easier-to-obtain options because of the block HMP has caused.

Thanks for the OCD diagnosis Doctor. Would you like to prescribe some medicine or treatment while you're at it? Also, thanks for letting me know that I'm angry. I honestly wasn't aware I was, but obviously Doctor knows best.

Well the latter is pretty much false (Barring maybe Caladbolg), and the former...well, if you're so determined to finish the weapon, it's obvious you should weigh your options and decide whether or not its worth your time. And if you don't think so...that was kind of the point.

And I think "the point" is wrong. Going from 75 whatevers to 1500 plates is just bait and switch absurdity. You even used the word absurd yourself. The only purpose it serves is to make a handful of people feel like they've done something special. I don't see that as a worthwhile purpose.