Turialon's Complain about the unsocial EMPY upgrades

[Sargent]

My interpretation on the scenario:

Pre-Abyssea, you could sponsor for Dynamis or pay/farm for Alex (90m Mythic nostalgia etc). No doubt about it, these weapons were made for the players who strive to be the best and were willing to put a mass of effort in for it.

Lv.80 arrives, Visions comes out. Emps come out, they're a pain to get (talking about the 80 version). People didn't have atma, so many of the mobs were difficult, people didn't know about the proc pattern. Emps were more or less on par with Relic/Mythics, aside the fact that at this point they were still free.
Lv.85. Second Atma comes, out, Razed Ruins comes out, people discover proc patterns. Emps are actually getting made, though it's slow. Now they become less on par with Relic/Mythics, and edge towards that casual side.
Lv.90. Reraise whenever you want (if you set it). Mob too hard? Brew it? Third atma, Abyssea doees for the most part become easy mode. Emp's are now a whole different ballpark to obtain in comparison to Relics/Mythics in the way that anyone can make one, all it takes is the effort. Mythics become borderline impossible due to lack of interest in Salvage and the non soloability of the event.
Lv.95: Plates. Now you need gil.

Long winded but the point is, personally I don't think making an Emp should have been this easy in the first place. Back when Glavoid was difficult, Bri required the better part of an alliance to make it was a genuine challenge, but Abyssea became unbalanced.
Now SE decide to "balance" it by making the 95+ stage more or less demand gil. Sounds like a severe lack of planning to me. The harder part should have come first, which it did. It just got made easy, so SE now "balance" that by effectively making Dynamis soloable.

[Camiie]

stuff like this is designed to where it's supposed to be somewhat "unreasonable" to get to keep you playing. if you don't have anything left to work for in the game, what would you do? probably quit playing.

That's why it's better for them to produce a larger number of short-term goals rather than, or in addition to, a few long-term ones. Instead of giving me one carrot to chase that's held out too far for me to ever reach, give me a trail of carrots to follow where each one can be reached reasonably but there is always another to go for.

Of course since the devs are the ultimate "lazy casuals," they won't like that idea too much no matter how much more enjoyable it makes the game for the majority of paying customers.

[Winrie]

Firstly I think simple adjustments such as adding heavy metal pouches and singles to other higher tier vw mobs would help a lot, and giving singles a "can drop 1~3 singles" style, not just one always. Those simple fixes would ultimay help imho. However all of this talk about how low the rates are I'm not understanding, personally when I do qilin out of every 6 I'm getting one pouch most every time, and as far as t3 go it's almost always a single metal if no body. And making Gil for them isn't even an issue, cruor from farming the metals themselves on vw, pulse cells, on top of every other Gil maker mentioned in this thread I won't elaborate on. As for trouble getting groups together ect, well that's player fault, ppl need to grow up and stop trolling ppl on easy mode mmorpg, and also it's the fault of drop rates, that's SEs issue they need to fix, that they prolly never will. So in a sense 1500 isn't unobtainable by any means granted groups are running, however the frequency of metal needs to he touched, our options are too few for the decline in interest of vw for it's crap drop rates and 18 man reqs for procs, why not let cities t4 drop them too? They are low mannable, and consume jus as much time to farm. SE did say empys are the casual players ultimate weapon and it is, anyone in this game can make easy, camp some nm, get your friends or shout and spam, common day ppl can get all the empy items within a week or less to take one weapon from 80 to 90. Most every item set to get the weapon to 80 takes a day to two maximum, and Thats just a couple hrs a day. Same holds true for taking weapons from 80-85, then one KI mobs for 85-90. That's why you have a 1500 req. Because a 90 empy is damn fine weapon even at 99. It's easy and takes literally no time compared to relics and mythics. SE also did state trials post 90 were based on the difficulty of obtaining the actual item. Complaining about ppl who have 95 empy+ talking about how they have no life or such, too much gil ect, makes the ppl complaining about it look just as bad as the people they slander for already finishing, simply put because you want it too, well get to it, they did. If there's no vw shouts make one, if you can't be bothered, leave the weapon at 90, it isn't gimp. Or just jump on the relic train, most are better anyway and completely soloable.

[Babekeke]

This whole thread is a troll, right?

Right?

[Kincard]

One thing I will agree with is that the 1500-plate investment, considering the reward (A few points of base damage and +2 stat), is pretty laughable. But I really don't think the investment of 1500 plates itself is unreasonable if they consider relics, mythics, and empyreans to be approximately the same level of difficulty (Insert some comment about mythics being totally balanced here). While I wouldn't say I'm a super-casual player or anything, I only have 2 empyrean weapons myself, with one being only at 85, and no relics or mythics, which is less than any "insane-no-life-poopsocking-filthy-stinkin-player-that-can-get-stuff-I-can't-I'm-totally-not-jealous" has.

It costs about 150M to finish the plate trial (180M if you decide to buy plates at 120k each- more on that later). Frankly, that's not much more expensive than getting a relic to even the first usable stage. Compare to one of the easier Relics to currently obtain, Apoc, which is about 120M. The fact that Empyreans can be usable without any gil investment (barring obvious things like mercing) at all already makes them a lot more reasonable than Relics or Mythics.

So, we've established that the gil investment isn't that much more unreasonable than relics, at the very least. So now we talk about the actually supply of plates.

Well, I recently finished collecting my 1500 plates, and I'm really wondering if we've all been browsing the same bazaars, because I have on numerous occasions seen many, many plates selling for 110k, 120k, or even higher in bazaars, that I decided to pass on because I'm not made of gil. If you are willing to put down the gil you could probably get all 1500 plates easily just spending maybe a week or two browsing bazaars in upper jeuno for about 20 minutes a day, so this whole "there's not enough in the supply of plates!" is pure fantasy from people who are simply unwilling to pay above a certain price for something...so if that's the case, that's more of a problem with you and not with the actual amount required. Besides, supply/demand, etc, etc. If they made plates easier by either raising the drop rate or lowering the required amount, it'll just mean more people will do 95/99 and the price wouldn't really change much, a lot like what happened with ancient currency. The times in the game's history when the price on something crashed significantly is when there was basically a complete redesign to how the item was obtained, such as TK.

I will submit that it's possible this will change in the future when VW stops being done, but of course, that's completely speculation- they can simply change the game when that does happen, if it ever does.

All that being said, I wouldn't really complain if they lowered the requirement, just makes it easier/possible for me to finish any new weapons I end up making. I just don't understand the people that bellyache it's impossible or unreasonable when it's probably still the most attainable of any of the ultimate weapons. With the marrow cost of relics factored in it is still cheaper to get a 99 empyrean than any other weapon.

By the way, if they adjust only plates and not the rift-items, prepare your anuses for Riftdross/Riftcinder being even more expensive than they are right now, then we'll get to complain about that instead.

[Helel]

I do dynamis 5 days a week as my only source of gil. Dynamis is 2-hours long. I have two empyreans 95+ (armageddon is 99 and almace 95), an annihilator 99 (buying the marrows), as well as an aegis 95, and other free empyreans. All it takes is 2-hours a day . . . If you're complaining about that then maybe you shouldn't be playing a MMO in the first place.

[Camiie]

If you're complaining about that then maybe you shouldn't be playing a MMO in the first place.

Or play one with less pointless nonsense.

[Ryanx]

1500 plates and 60 of the item after make it equivilant to a relic 99 so it is totaly fair

[Kincard]

Obviously lots of people don't find it pointless because lots of people are able to finish it, and bother doing so. It's clear you're only complaining because you can't/don't want to finish it.

Besides, the upgrade from 90 to 95/99 Empyrean is a nice chunk of Damage, but hardly required for most of the Empyreans to be useful anyway, so it's not like you got bamboozled into starting a weapon that's now useless. You're just making it hard on yourself by setting goals you can't finish but plenty of other people are able to.

[Demon6324236]

I want a lv99 Almace, simply for the fact I want lv99 of all the weapons my RDM can use. Also I like Almace, and I plan to use it still. The problem is the same here as I have with making a Mythic weapon. How can I justify to myself spending so much money for 5 levels on a weapon I already have, instead of just making a Relic for another of my jobs so that it is better too? To put it another way, look at what jobs I play. I play RDM & DRK as my main jobs I play. My RDM currently has Excalibur & Almace, my DRK has a Hoarfrost & Wroth Scythe. I would like to 99 my Almace but I end up looking at my jobs and I cant help but think that instead I should get a Rag or Apoc, I also cant help but feel that I should spend money to buff another job, rather than just buff up my already good jobs.

Its not that I don't want to make a lv99 Almace, I really do, but I just cant reasonably do it for this cost. If they made them drop in normal slots as well as where good items drop, might be a different story, I might get to farm them myself rather than buy them, in which case I have less of a problem, but right now to farm them I would probably have to spam Qilin all day every day for a week or 2 it seems, then I might have gotten lucky enough to get my plates.