[Suggestion] ManeuverTP bonus

[Dreamin]

Only when I'm standing around doing nothing. Or just being certain WS. I actually use maneuvers every 10s for 3 and then would wait til the 1st one is wear unless I need to replace/use a different element.

Can't think of a situation where High Haste/Zerg situations where ppl would invite a PUP though. In that case, I probably would go as MNK/WAR/SAM/DRG/DRK/etc. before I would go as PUP.

For the most part, I leveled PUP to see how it is different from SMN and BST. I've found that it's been an interesting difference especially given the variety of puppet job role we can do as PUP. Still learning this job though.

[Karbuncle]

Only when I'm standing around doing nothing. Or just being certain WS. I actually use maneuvers every 10s for 3 and then would wait til the 1st one is wear unless I need to replace/use a different element.

Can't think of a situation where High Haste/Zerg situations where ppl would invite a PUP though. In that case, I probably would go as MNK/WAR/SAM/DRG/DRK/etc. before I would go as PUP.

For the most part, I leveled PUP to see how it is different from SMN and BST. I've found that it's been an interesting difference especially given the variety of puppet job role we can do as PUP. Still learning this job though.

Okay, For the record, I would like to acknowledge you leveled the job simply to level it, and for the most part, it seems like you understand some basic of how DD's work... But I'll explain it pretty easily, Though you may already understand.

You're aware of a 2 Second Delay after JA's right? Well, Using a JA 3 Times every ~60 seconds is going to significantly hurt any DPS you might bring to the fight. While PUP Isn't going to zergs any time soon, They do get invited seldom to Voidwatch. Plus, IN most cases, your WHM pet will be giving you haste... Your Natural Martial Arts at 40% Haste (25% Gear, Haste 15%) Will put you at a pretty solid attack speed, to a point those 6 seconds every ~Minute or so are going to impact your DD a lot.

Overall, The suggestion from the OP, While it would not make up for our lost damage, It would help make up a little of our WS Frequency. PUP, Like pretty much every single pet job in the game, Suffers from the problem that they're not really good DD, and they excel at just about nothing overall. BST, SMN, and PUP all suffer from this... Pets = Make the job useless. Its really a pattern I'm surprised SE Doesn't see. DRG is only mildly saved because their pet is uncontrollable.

BST, SMN, and PUP all have little/no uses. BST is only good for Dynamis cause its idiot proof, SMN is only good for its 2hour, and PUP... Well is completely useless. (Outside of VW for all the above).

The gist of that is - Pet jobs, Like any tank class, are already dead enough, Would be quite nice if these little issues with it could be ironed out.

Hope i covered it well!

[xbobx]

I never really saw the issue in this. It is part of the job and something we just have to deal with. I would rather start seeing some more attachments being designed. I still want my TH attachment.
You can't have a job that is versatile to be the best DD in the game too, you need a trade off. And Pup is very strong as it is, that is if people know how to play it. What other job gets such a nice cure bot.

[Spiritreaver]

Tactical Switch then?

Guess maybe I just dont get where's the whole losing TP is coming from using Maneuvers. Yeah, there's a time delay that you lose from punching the mob when you use maneuvers, but it's not a hugh deal. You can always go /SAM for mediate to gain more TP, go /DNC to store TP or haste samba and/or use WHM pet to get Haste from him. I'm missing something here. [I've just recently finished my PUP and still working on finishing up my gears for it as well as capping pet's RA - magic are done and melee 20 away from cap. So maybe I'm just missing the point here].

You aren't missing anything. Its a fact that using manuvers causes delay. It just that the vast majority of PUP see that delay as unacceptable. I'm in the very small minority that is fine with it as its an integral part of the job(using manuvers).

That said don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the OP. If SE takes the suggestion and makes a change, cool. If not though, i'm not gonna be bummed out.

I never really saw the issue in this. It is part of the job and something we just have to deal with. I would rather start seeing some more attachments being designed. I still want my TH attachment.
You can't have a job that is versatile to be the best DD in the game too, you need a trade off. And Pup is very strong as it is, that is if people know how to play it. What other job gets such a nice cure bot.

Wonder of wonders, i actually agree with a post from bob(Well mostly, as i, to this day, do not understand ppl's obsession with pet jobs needing TH. And it more than just him i've seen asking for it by a large bit).

[Kristal]

Wonder of wonders, i actually agree with a post from bob(Well mostly, as i, to this day, do not understand ppl's obsession with pet jobs needing TH. And it more than just him i've seen asking for it by a large bit).

I want an TH attachment just to spite those THFs that can run around with maxed TH and still not deliver. Oh, and to one-up those snooty BSTs with their fancy-smancy TH pets.

[Karbuncle]

Who says they can't do both?

I'm not going to pretend to want to debate the importance of maintaining a functional DD level with people who could care less because it just makes me look like a psycho, But yah... They could add both the Functionally Worthless TH attachment and the TP return for Maneuvers.

[Dreamin]

I dont see what the big deal is though, no different than other jobs that has to use JA regularly, i.e. DNC comes to mind and as DNC, chances are you going to use more than 3x JA within very min (looking at min of 4/min for DNC just on steps). And when compare to DNC main, as PUP/DNC, I would gain more overall haste because I can use my WHM pet which will haste me so I can have both haste samba and haste up at the same time.

Guess I just look at that little loss of TP just part of playing PUP. Can't have everything and not have anything bad to go with the job. I mean, overall wise, I think the 'fixed' PUP has so many advantages over BST and SMN (in more situations at least). As SMN, our avatar is really our figter, as BST, we can choose to use our pet as fighter only or fight along with them. SMN's avatar's attack for the most part are weak (BP) but they have less hate associated with them. BST we have different JUGS (cuz we're realy Jugmaster now a day and not Beastmaster) but none of are Jugs can be main healer/enfeebler/nuker. None will keep me alive as it would if I play PUP (rabbit can not even come close to our WHM puppet). Now, at the flip side, I can't just keep tossing my pet at NM (certain types) as PUP and have them solo the NM for me while I just sit back and keep them alive as easy as I can with SMN or BST [at least I haven't started/tried this yet].

[Spiritreaver]

I want an TH attachment just to spite those THFs that can run around with maxed TH and still not deliver. Oh, and to one-up those snooty BSTs with their fancy-smancy TH pets.

Petty, but at least it is a step up from the standard forum response of, 'Just 'cause.'

Kudos

[Karbuncle]

I dont see what the big deal is though, no different than other jobs that has to use JA regularly, i.e. DNC comes to mind and as DNC, chances are you going to use more than 3x JA within very min (looking at min of 4/min for DNC just on steps). And when compare to DNC main, as PUP/DNC, I would gain more overall haste because I can use my WHM pet which will haste me so I can have both haste samba and haste up at the same time

.

You do Realize DNC actually has the option of Getting that TP Back more than full with the use of Reverse Flourish, Right? Bad example is all.

But its neither here nor there though.

[Dreamin]

.

You do Realize DNC actually has the option of Getting that TP Back more than full with the use of Reverse Flourish, Right? Bad example is all.

But its neither here nor there though.

Of course, but we're talking about the 'ja' delay here I'm just saying that DNC typically would do at a min 1 more JA per min cycle. We are talking about the 'lost' of TP whichleads to ws frequency which is then translated to the total DPS of the job. DNC might get this TP back, but it's not necessarily true that they can use all these reclaimed TP nor can they always reclaim all these TP back at any definitive manners. They might have to use some of the finishing moves as flourishes (i.e. stun, voke, all situational dependent). They might miss their step and not get the FM and hence not get back the TP as fast. And each of these flourishes also added more 'delay' and lost of total DPS.

Going back on track here, but that's part of DNC's job description. For the most part and for most jobs, their JA is what defines them. Similarly for PUP, our puppet is what define us and you DON'T have to use maneuvers every 10s if you dont wanted to. But the fun and beauty of the different types of maneuvers we can/will use in associations with the different types of attachments/frame-head/situation is what gives PUP the variety that is lacking in BST or SMN (SMN could be corrected if SE ever decided to fix that job though).