Oh by the way, pet TH gear?

[Phogg]

So that I don't simply appear to be defending BST without offering a potential solution outside of nerfing BST, the solution is clear.....simply reduce the proc rate of JA's in dynamis, or increase the proc rate of magic and WSs. This would allow other jobs to be more useful then the standard of whateverjob/dnc. Problem solved.

[Zhronne]

Berserk is more than cool, it's extraordinary. Why would any job sub /NIN for anything? Abyssea procs? To most people that sub died with the last level cap increase.

It certainly is awesome, and possibly the only valid option for a DNC who wants to be a DD. I still sub /NIN if I'm soloing something that requires shadows.
And anyway, I was still talking from a solo-dynamis perspective.
I usually go /THF or /00 with my DNC in Dyna, dunno why you'd want to go /WAR if you're soloing but that's just me hey, and it's no secret I'm a particularly noob DNC

[Zagen]

How is it a terrible example? There is competition for mobs in dynamis, and people mostly get mad because BSTs can hold multiple mobs. Well, so can PLD. What exactly is the difference? Their kill speed doesn't make any difference, what people get upset about is the holding of mobs, hence the example.

There isn't competition for mobs during WS times for a given family. Because it takes a PLD with Ochain to do it solo. BST just needs some axes Falcorr or Yuly Jugs and some Pet Food, all of which are on the AH where Ochain is not. That's why it's a terrible example.

[Valkrist]

@Arcon -Way to paint everyone with a broad stroke, I could say the same things about the arrogance of PLDs, but that doesn't make it true or relevant. I probably don't need to anyway, because your post does it for me.

BTW, my friend pointed out seeing a PLD holding 10 mobs in Dynamis using Aeolian Edge to proc. I submit we should start a campaign to nerf PLD, because clearly they are overpowered and ruining dynamis for everyone else.

What Arcon says is 100% true regardless.

BST is an extremely powerful job that is overlooked for many reasons. First and foremost it goes back to the 75 cap days where BST was shunned because of common thought that their pet -still- counted as a party member and brought down party exp. Since then, people avoided BST like the plague.

Even today with level 99 BSTs, people don't know what they're actually capable of in a party situation since two scenarios have been clearly made over the years: BST soloers that don't give a shit about other players, and your normal players that never seen a BST party with anyone. BST is a VERY capable party job whose pet can easily dish out more damage than your typical player nowadays. Also the BST themselves have access to very good DD gear, causing them to actually be able to do decent damage on their own. This is further augmented that then their hate can be transfered to the pet. Jugs every five minutes, or recharming every 15 seconds, for disposable HP and hate. BST is clearly a very capable job and any serious BST will tell you that they're nothing to laugh at.

Only recently BST was given TH3 that was comparable to an ungeared level 75 THF and BST players are now complaining that they've fallen from grace now. BST is still one of only jobs in the game that naturally gets TH1, this gives the job a significant "one-up" compared to the other classes which normally has to sacrifice their subclass from a design standpoint. I don't know RNG enough to know how exactly Bounty Shot works, so I won't comment on that, but BLU is the only other job that can naturally get TH1 as well.

People will complain that the augmented Tarutaru Sash makes half of the jobs in the game have equal TH as BST and BLU. That's very true, but this doesn't make any of these jobs better at THing than BST. Right now BST is now on equal grounds with MNK, WHM, BLM, RDM, PLD, BRD, RNG, SMN, PUP, and SCH. Though techically BLU can now reach TH2 with TTS, but not many people complain that they have an unfair advantage.

Just like any online game, there're going to be changes to make things more balanced. It's just that the FFXI community is too fixated on the word "balance" and focused their hatred on Tanaka. {Insert Tanaka/Absolute Virtue Jokes Here} Job classes, gear, monsters, prices, spells, and anything else you can think of will always change over time just because the game is constantly being reassessed because of how players are handling the game. A few months back, it was obvious that BST was dominating the Dynamis scene and everyone saw the TH nerf coming.

This is my personal opinion that a lot of non-BSTs share. The current BST player base is looked as a selfish mob that doesn't care about screwing over other players. It was commonplace to see BSTs soloing two-plus monsters at any given time in Dynamis. It's common to see BSTs kill stealing from other players if anyone else tries mimicing them by having more than one monster on them. Also common, BSTs would become very vocal if you tried kill stealing from them. The stereotype is there not because people just felt like saying it. It's there because a good portion of the population is that way that the stereotype can be made and that so many people can nod in agreement that it's that way.

You can argue that ochain PLDs can "cleave" Dynamis mobs and monopolize just as much, if not more, than BSTs. This is very true and it is a less done Dynamis currency farming method. The thing is that PLDs are doing nothing different that a BST isn't doing. They're holding multiple monsters at once, but only one of them is actually claimed. Both the PLDs and BSTs aren't doing anything that is breaking any game rules. They're just doing things that the player base feels that are breaking an unspoken courtesy rulebook. Anyone could still go up to the PLD, or BST, and steal back any non-red-claimed monster. No one is entitled to more than one monster, or to even claim that only their job can do so-and-so like having TH3.

It has already been complained in the past that ochain is "too powerful" and it should be nerfed. In the Dynamis scene, "cleaving" has been nerfed once already against proccing, but it hasn't seriously done anything against these PLDs is true. Give it time and maybe another proccing change will happen.


Truth be told... This is the same way a lot of BSTs were back at 75 days. It's just that today BSTs are more capable and had the biggest farming niche available. Today you just have a lot of vocal BSTs because suddenly BST was given some love. "Some love" is such an understatement at that.

BSTs today have gotten so much, but it's never enough. The grass is always greener.... I've been a BST ever since the 75 days when they were joked about. I've also leveled almost every job this game has to offer since the 75 days. When I'm comparing jobs, BST before was already a very solid job. Today it's really a monster. No pun intended. Sure I'm sad that BST has lost 2 levels of TH, but I think the job is still fine the way it is today.

[Phogg]

There isn't competition for mobs during WS times for a given family. Because it takes a PLD with Ochain to do it solo. BST just needs some axes Falcorr or Yuly Jugs and some Pet Food, all of which are on the AH where Ochain is not. That's why it's a terrible example.

Again, the example is related to people bashing BST and calling for nerfs because they hold mobs, not the efficacy of farming as PLD. It's a systemic issue within dynamis+procs, not a BST job issue.

Given that there is less competition during the WS and magic proc times doesn't it make more sense to make those other camp times more viable by increasing the proc rate for WSs and magic? Suddenly RDM/anything becomes more viable, DD/nin becomes more viable, SMN/rdm becomes more viable, etc. Everyone loves to claim BST is weak compared to literally every other DD job in nearly every other facet of the game, so if that is true, then all those other jobs should be capable of outpacing a BST in dynamis, its just that their ability to do so is limited by the proc system, not the other BSTs.

[Camate]

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

[Hashmalum]

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

That doesn't mean "we promise to give you the gear." it means if and/or when they introduce it, it will enhance it just like using Pet: (attribute) enhances thing, it wasn't a promise..Unless it's an American thing to read everything as a promise, excuse me.

In context, it was a promise. And the slap at Americans was completely unnecessary, and as an American, I am offended by your post. I will, however, explain to you why people are so outraged by what's happened since you seem to be unable to get it.

We Americans have in our history a notorious con artist and and circus owner named P. T. Barnum. At one traveling circus he ran, he put an egret (a type of bird) on display; there was a sign directing visitors to this attraction, which read "This way to the egret". At the exit to the room with the egret, there was a very similar sign reading "This way to the egress". Now, the word "egress" sounds like it could mean "female egret" in the same way that we have words such as "actress" for a female actor. It doesn't. It's actually an obscure word for "exit". When people followed this sign, expecting to see another exotic bird, they would leave the circus grounds--only to find themselves charged full price if they wanted to get back in. I'm sure that Barnum blamed the victims of this trick for being "stupid" much like how you are doing now.

Barnum's "egress" con is a prime example of how you can speak the literal truth and still be a damn dirty liar. Human languages are inherently imprecise and incomplete and a single sentence may potentially convey an unlimited range of possible meanings. Some of these are the exact opposite of the sentence's literal meaning. It's the context that makes all the difference. When a speaker creates an utterance intended to create in the minds of the listener an impression at variance with what the speaker believes to be true, deception has been perpetrated. Semantic game-playing makes no moral difference; if you say something that you know has been misinterpreted by the listener in a way favorable to you, it is up to you to correct it or at least disavow the mistaken interpretation. If you do not, then you have lied.

Now, the FFXI development team has the resources of a multibillion dollar international corporation behind them; there are numerous people working for Square-Enix who are supposed to be devoted to making sure these kind of "misunderstandings" don't take place. And in fact, on other issues we have had official statements from Camate and crew saying, "No, you misunderstand, what we meant was _____." What can we conclude from this? Either the reps were lying and the dev team was silent about TH pet gear (quite unlikely! Don't be mad, guys, just mentioning this for logical completeness), the dev team was lying at the time, the dev team is lying now, or the dev team just plain forgot about the original statement and we deserve an apology.

As for the issue of whether BST pets should have TH or not, well, all I have to say about it is this: the dev team has made it very clear that to them, boosting item drops rather than (say) doing damage is a very big part of what THF is about. If they didn't want to give us a pet that boosted item drops, then they should not have made those pets THF job to begin with.

[Camiie]

Just like good BST/PUP/SMNs are well known and actually looked up to for all the hardwork and effort they put into being good, no other job gets "more rewards for the same amount of work and effort" now you're just making BS up, everyone is rewarded the same in the game, hell you can solo things easily as pet jobs whereas a lot of jobs can't even dream to solo without a ton of medicines/brew (in abyssea.)

Did you forget about that, Ms. Summoner?

The rewards I was talking about were not gear and gil. They were access and acceptance. You can work your ass off on all of these jobs and still not be considered good enough to stand in the doorway of endgame. I could say that any ally or LS leader that would turn his nose up at a well geared and played BST/SMN/PUP is an uneducated idiot, but sadly they aren't 100% wrong in turning us down the way they do. I wish they were. I wish we did rule the parse or have irreplaceable buffs/abilities, but the vast majority of the time we simply don't.

No pet job has been nerfed in a drastic way compared to DRGs getting nerfed to the point of not being wanted until SE "rectified it" later on, remember the TP floor change? Yeah I still seen SMNs and BSTs in parties end-game but where were the DRGs? Oh that's right "you're worthless level a real job."

Really? I saw way more DRGs than BST and SMN. I guess it depends on what you mean by "parties end-game." HNM? I sure as heck didn't see BST or SMN fighting wyrms, behemoths, or turtles. Dynamis? It seemed like bringing a pet job was a cardinal sin. Sky? Not unless you were in a pet LS. Sea? Same as sky except maybe for Jailer of Faith. Limbus? Not a chance. Salvage? The cell system was not friendly to BST and especially SMN. Einherjar? SMN maybe after Alex was released. XP parties? It wasn't BST or SMN getting those spots unless it was a SMN burn. YMMV, but what I saw isn't what you saw.

Never seen "lolsmn/lolbst" in the fashion I've seen "loldrg" and I'm sure you've played long enough to realize this. I've seen "lolpup" because people didn't know how to play it or push it into prime and the main "lol" was because they weren't H2H masters like MNK, which people for some reason expected them to be on par with MNK's DPS.

I've seen all of the above and still do.

Job. Not jobs, Job. The only job that ever gets overpowered is Samurai.

Hmm. It's subjective. Some would say WAR and MNK are overpowered. Some would say WHM is overpowered or perhaps other healers are underpowered compared to it.

Go play Dark Knight some time, then go cry about your job being "balanced out".

What makes you think I don't sympathize with DRK's situation? Just because I complain about my job doesn't mean I don't feel for yours and want you to have fun and see improvements.

[Phogg]

This is my personal opinion that a lot of non-BSTs share. The current BST player base is looked as a selfish mob that doesn't care about screwing over other players. It was commonplace to see BSTs soloing two-plus monsters at any given time in Dynamis. It's common to see BSTs kill stealing from other players if anyone else tries mimicing them by having more than one monster on them. Also common, BSTs would become very vocal if you tried kill stealing from them. The stereotype is there not because people just felt like saying it. It's there because a good portion of the population is that way that the stereotype can be made and that so many people can nod in agreement that it's that way.

This part of your post is where I take issue. Everything by nature in dynamis is competitive. THFs will flee to a mob to take the one you just pulled your weapon out to attack and and bully it in front of your face. MNKs will come out of nowhere to chi blast the same. To claim only BSTs act competitively is disingenuous at best. There is no difference, everyone competes for the mobs. People just point at BST because they see them most frequently in dynamis. That is why people hold that stereotype, not because its valid, but because it is what they are most frequently exposed to.

The irony is, what they truly want, is for THEIR job to be more powerful than a BST in dynamis. Right? That's the end game with all the calls to nerf BST, is it not? So who really is being selfish here? Probably no one, they are just extending that competition here in an attempt to make it easier for them in the game.

If suddenly NIN was the king of Dynamis, and all you saw were Ninja's everywhere competing for mobs against you, suddenly, all NINs would be considered selfish and everyone would call for them to be nerfed. The stereotype is a logical fallacy based on a frequency of encounters, and the biggest laugh about the entire situation is those "non-bsts" thinking this way completely disregard that those they are calling bandwagon BSTs and calling for nerfs, are considered that because they leveled the job ONLY to farm dynamis. Meaning, they are not BSTs at all, so those you call selfish are actually NINs, or PLDs, or MNKs, or whatever their real job is. They leveled BST for dynamis due to their infatuation with a min/max mentality. The same mentality that unfairly excluded BSTs from group events over the years. But now BSTs are the ones who are selfish....

I'm not arguing the stereotype does not exist, because it clearly does. But it's based on a false premise. The problem is not with the job, its with the system.

Edit: As you can see below, my account seems accurate.

[Eric]

Because that's a mature attitude.

As it stands, I don't have anything to gain when BST gets buffed, because I never have one in my party/alliance. However, I have lots to gain when they're nerfed because it means that I'll be running into less inconsiderate BSTs everywhere I go.

Yes, it might not be a mature attitude, but until people give me a reason to reconsider, I don't care, because unlike almost every other job in this game, I actually do stand to lose something when they're buffed, because it means more idiots will join the bandwagon and ruin my fun, along with the job's already-deteriorating reputation.