Oh by the way, pet TH gear?

[Dethard]

I think they have acted disgracefully by doing this. They say they looked at the discussions for and against the pets TH and decided that for balance pets did not need any more TH. But what the forget is that the pro pet TH camp were muted because of the statement that the TH could be made up with gear that would be released. If they had said from the start they they were not going to produce this gear then the pro pet TH argument would have been more vociferous.

The fact remains that when a BST calls a THF type pet they should expect to get a reasonable level of TH just as when a PUP summons a BLM type automaton they expect it to be able to nuke or with a WHM automaton they expect it to have reasonable curing ability. What people tend to forget is that it is not the BST that has the TH it is the pet and if the pet is a THF it should fall into a similar category (although slightly lower) than a THF player in the rankings they gave for TH.

It is similar to a situation where a player dual boxes with a mule character, if you level your mule as a THF and you dual box with that mule you would be a bit put out if the TH of your mule was nerfed because you were dual boxing.

SE really need to seriously look at where they want BST to be, up to level 75 it is played one way with BST having to charm mobs to be effective, then suddenly post 75 we have to change tactics and start using jug pets So in reality there is no point in levelling the job the normal way, you may as well burn the job to at least level 76 then start learning it. Majority of the skills up to then will not be used after that.

Have they mentioned yet if any of the mobs in the upcoming new expansion areas will be charmable? If not then they have totally sidelined BST and changed it from what was originally intended. If that is the case they need to totally rework the idea of BST and its abilities from scratch as a jug pet user and not a charmer and give the pets the abilities of the job they are otherwise the pets just become generic with little difference between them.

[Alpheus]

No it's not, it's precisely the same issue. It sounds like you're not aware that BST can also sub THF to get TH3.

I'm assuming this part was a typo given that BST cannot wear an augmented Taru sash w/ the TH augment since your next two sentences after this mentioned BST getting TH2. Not pointing out to knock you or anything because like I said was most likely a typo given what proceeded the above statement, but rather simply pointing it out for clarity since this issue on the whole tends to be contentious and people might glance and oversimplify what can and what can't be done.

In all fairness Zhornne also made the same mistake when mentioning TH3 followed by mentioning DNC/THF since they also can't wear the sash. Of course there is the likely possibility I am overlooking yet another piece of multi-job TH gear OR I am simply assuming (incorrectly) the discussion on the last page between the two of you involved the sash in which case my apologies to the both of you.

[Zhronne]

Not a typo, just a mistake on my side (I don't even own a taru sash myself, gave up tryin to get one). I just thought even jobs like SAM, NIN and DNC could equip it, of course I was wrong.
The overall logic of what I was tryin to say still stands though, if anything it's even stronger.

Wether or not SE failed I can't tell, but I'm pretty sure what they were trying to do is "balancing" the difficulty/efficiency with which jobs can solo Dynamis.
BST back then, had an extremely favourable ratio in this. It was stronger, easier to use even with average gear, high average amount of coins thanks to TH3 etc.
It's no surprise that a lot of people levelled BST only to solofarm dynamis and, indeed, those days dyna areas were packed full with BSTs soloing stuff. Dunno if the situations has changed now, haven't done dyna myself since february.

Even more than I said in my previous post, I think SE were trying to balance things by letting players choose between jobs with higher TH rate but lower efficiency at proccing/soloing (the jobs who can get TH3 with /THF and taru sash).
Other jobs who can proc and solo very easily but with reduced TH (DNC/THF) and then jobs who can solo even more easily, but have a furtherly reduced TH rate (BSTs).
Yes, I'm sure this was their plan, altough I'm not really sure it worked the way they meant it to be when you think about PUP/THF doing WS procs or THF/DNC doing JA procs... but yeah, I'm sure this is what they wanted to do.
Did they succeed? Did they fail? I'm leaning for the second, altough probably community members are overall happier than the whiners in this thread might suggest.


Allow me to elaborate.
Community wise, I'm afraid the only people who really got hurt and felt tricked by the "false promise" of Pet:TH item are those people who cared more about BST and had the job already levelled before the Dyna reform.
Most of the rest of the people were probably happy about the nerf and rejoiced, because they hated BST soloers "stealing their mobs".
We can divide them into two groups:
1) Bandwagons - those who had levelled BST only because attracted by the efficiency level of dyna solo farming. These people simply moved to the next Dyna bandwagon job.
2) Haters - people who were soloing, dualboxing or lowmanning dyna with other jobs and hated BST soloers because of the competition they implied. These people surely rejoiced about the nerf we BSTs received.

So yeah, if we look at this from a "majority" point of view, SE probably made the majority of FFXI players happy, making only a small minority of BST-lovers highly disappointed and frustrated.

[Luvbunny]

Total disgrace of a response from SE.... I guess they were pretty miffed that Beast with TH3 were able to farm decent amount of dyna currency, effectively killing their CHEAP WAY to add time sink into the game. I think this is why they refuse to revamped mythic weapons. Empyrean showed them how much fun, easy and enjoyable they can be, fast to acquire and takes not much of an effort. I have a feeling that the next expansion is a total bust, and it will take them 5 years to complete the content. Unless they plan to create the Abyssea Golden Years Version 2.0. - which in this case I am all for it.

[Jerbob]

In a way it's nice to see such a barefaced lie. It proves people's suspicions re: the way this game works to be, if not objectively true, then at least well founded. It's just a shame that Beastmasters had to suffer for that point to be made.

Pretty appalling stuff, really. Kudos to the guy posted the quote in question almost immediately.

[Elexia]

lol, SE staff can't reread posted threads, you did promise gear.... Recheck your history!

You idiots read anything as a promise. They never said:

"We promise to give you Pet TH gear."

The post stated: "By using..."

That doesn't mean "we promise to give you the gear." it means if and/or when they introduce it, it will enhance it just like using Pet: (attribute) enhances thing, it wasn't a promise..Unless it's an American thing to read everything as a promise, excuse me.

[Camiie]

The devs really need to decide where BST stands among the jobs of Vana'diel. Either make us a worthy DD so we can legitimately compete for a spot with WAR/SAM/MNK, etc. or let us be the ultimate solo master who relies on no one and give us our damned Treasure Hunter back. Quit balancing us and the other pet jobs into the oblivion of mediocrity.

Good BSTs, SMNs, and PUPs pour a ton of effort into their jobs, and great ones deserve a friggin' medal for everything they endure. But, the effort:reward ratio on pet jobs is absolutely abysmal compared to pretty much everything else. Other jobs can put in a ton of work too, but they usually have something to show for it at the end of the day. What do we get? Nerfs, more BALANCE!! than anyone else, and lolJOB from the community as a whole. Quit being afraid of us actually being good! Let us shine some! Lord knows you guys aren't scared to overpower certain other jobs that will remain nameless.

[Elexia]

Other jobs can put in a ton of work too, but they usually have something to show for it

Just like good BST/PUP/SMNs are well known and actually looked up to for all the hardwork and effort they put into being good, no other job gets "more rewards for the same amount of work and effort" now you're just making BS up, everyone is rewarded the same in the game, hell you can solo things easily as pet jobs whereas a lot of jobs can't even dream to solo without a ton of medicines/brew (in abyssea.)

Did you forget about that, Ms. Summoner?

What do we get?

No pet job has been nerfed in a drastic way compared to DRGs getting nerfed to the point of not being wanted until SE "rectified it" later on, remember the TP floor change? Yeah I still seen SMNs and BSTs in parties end-game but where were the DRGs? Oh that's right "you're worthless level a real job."

and lolJOB from the community as a whole

Never seen "lolsmn/lolbst" in the fashion I've seen "loldrg" and I'm sure you've played long enough to realize this. I've seen "lolpup" because people didn't know how to play it or push it into prime and the main "lol" was because they weren't H2H masters like MNK, which people for some reason expected them to be on par with MNK's DPS.

Lord knows you guys aren't scared to overpower certain other jobs that will remain nameless.

Job. Not jobs, Job. The only job that ever gets overpowered is Samurai. Go play Dark Knight some time, then go cry about your job being "balanced out".

[Arcon]

I think I'm missing something important from your post.
Yeah of course BST can go /THF and get TH3, but how is he going to proc JA mobs without /DNC and wielding a single weapon and a shield?

No, you're right, I messed up. I wasn't talking about Dynamis, even though you mentioned it specifically. But if it's about Dyna, BST is with no shadow of a doubt the last job that has a right to complain.

DNC/THF is not really a big difference compared to... to what? /NIN? Provides no additional damage than /THF.
You mean /WAR maybe? DA is nice but doesn't stack with Saberdance, +10 attack is nice, Berserk is cool 3mins every 5.

Berserk is more than cool, it's extraordinary. Why would any job sub /NIN for anything? Abyssea procs? To most people that sub died with the last level cap increase.

BST gets TH1 for free? Bzzzt. I'm sorry that's incorrect. BSTs have to pay gil for it each and every time.

There's several kinds of costs. Gil wasn't the one I was referring to.

How sociopathic of you. What is it about a generally low-tier job getting "shafted" that makes you feel good?

Low-tier? How so? Because it doesn't get invited to endgame events? That's kind of a case in point of why I hate most BST players. They think they're entitled to everything but think very little of what they have. BST is a money-making machine on this game, unlike any other single job. For very little effort they get money stuffed up their butts. In addition to that they're great soloers and can participate in pet strategies to take down hard mobs with very little risk. Many people would find that imbalanced. Just because BST isn't gladly seen in endgame setups it doesn't make the job low-tier at all.

Not that I need a reason to hate people, but since you asked for one: their mentality upsets me. Both from the old days, when they were competing with EXP parties for mobs as well as now when they think they own anything and everything they lay their eyes on. Like Dynamis, where they think it's perfectly fine to hoard mobs while you wander around waiting for repops and if you do dare to take one they think they're allowed to get upset. Just like when they take hours to kill Abyssea NMs just to show they can solo them and afterwards think that shows they have skill (or something similarly delusional), while everyone else just waits for them to get out of their way. Most BST I've met are selfish and quite often arrogant. That's why I hate them.

I'm assuming this part was a typo given that BST cannot wear an augmented Taru sash w/ the TH augment since your next two sentences after this mentioned BST getting TH2. Not pointing out to knock you or anything because like I said was most likely a typo given what proceeded the above statement, but rather simply pointing it out for clarity since this issue on the whole tends to be contentious and people might glance and oversimplify what can and what can't be done.

You're quite correct, I did mean TH2. Thanks for the correction.

But, the effort:reward ratio on pet jobs is absolutely abysmal compared to pretty much everything else.

Again, if you're talking about Dynamis you're completely out of your mind with this statement. Other pet jobs may complain, but BST most definitely can not.

[larrymc]

Greetings BSTs,

We received positive and negative feedback about the adjustment of Treasure Hunter for Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr, and we would like to let you know that this was to keep the overall balance amongst other jobs and their Treasure Hunter effects. After thorough review, we are starting to see the results we intended to meet, so there are no plans to make any further Treasure Hunter adjustments to these pets.

We definitely understand the intense discussions these changes have brought about, especially regarding obtaining currency through Dynamis and Beastmaster's qualities, but please understand that the these adjustments were necessary after reviewing the drop results.



There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

This community rep did not do a good job at conveying this information. The rep knows about this post:

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

So to simply give a terse statement that their was no promise - without addressing the prior post in some way is disingenuous.

Clearly, this post from Camate was specifically talking about Dipper & Falcor, and the introduction of equipment to boost their TH.

What makes me a bit tweaked is that the post from Okipuit is not honest. What he should have said (assuming this is the case) is that after evaluating the drop data, the development team has decided not to introduce new items to boost pet TH, as they feel its is strong enough at current levels. If that was the last sentence in his post, people would have complained yes of course, but at least there would not have been the feeling of political double speak, where words are carefully parsed for select meanings.