Relic and Empyrean jobs that can use them.

[Dawnn]

i would just like to point out that if DNC had mandau it would be insanely broken. while THF has a higher dagger skill dnc gets more attacks, haste samba, built in duel weald, and the ability to sub SAM and get 100tp every 30-3minit's with reverse flerish and meditate (yes i know meditate is only 60tp for /sub, also dnc would get more store TP) the damage output would become insane.

i love dnc and use it as much as i can but am not so stupid as to realis that se new what they were doing when they did not give DNC mandau.

what has me wearyed is this empys arnt hard to make they just take time same as relics. mythics are just insane and i have respect foranyone that has one, but sum thing tells me the new weapons will be along the lines of mythic to make and if there not the "epean" crowd will cry that it is to easy to get.


as for gamers attitudes it happened when gaming became mane stream as well as with the internet.

Mandau for dancer wouldn't make it broken WHATSOEVER. Sure maybe in abyssea it would pump up its damage a little more, but thats pretty much the only area where it would have that big of an effect. Level correction and the simple fact that it is a one handed weapon constantly hold dancer hostage. On voidwatch it would hardly be different than twash/thokcha. Ukon wars will still deal more damage, rag dark knights will still do more. Abyssea is fairly dead at the moment, dancer really isn't taken into Neo-Nyzul, and dancer at best does more damage than a mediocre war or sam in voidwatch. The problem doesn't lie within the weapon itself, but rather the way damage is calculated.

[Lienn]

I agree with the players that complained about not being able to equip relic and/or empyrean weapons. IMO it's still time to update the jobs that can equip relic and, when new jobs come out, update again for them.

AFs were updated in Dynamis...why not the weapons?

[Nala]

Neisan_Quetz Has probably had in mind /WAR when he criticized your preference for DNC/SAM. It is true that at lv80-85 many DNCs used to /SAM as it offered a good boost to TP gain, but since getting Dual Wield IV, Reverse Flourish=100TP and augmented Saber Dance, going /WAR gives you better damage potential than /SAM: Double Attack (+10%, active also during weapon skills, this also translates to more TP from extra swings), Berserk, Warcry, Agressor and Provoke. /SAM offers miniscule sTP and Meditate/Sekkanoki every 5min. You can effectively use Presto->Reverse flourish->self-SkillChain more often than that already.

Just to point out that DA from saber dance does not stack with the trait, that said war is still a superior sub job in terms of damage dealing for a DNC.

Also one more point to consider due to the old DW nerf back in the day, it greatly reduces the utility of STP for DW, not that it is useless but just not as practical.

[Winrie]

I heavily disagree with relics having dnc ect plastered on them, you have job specific mythics and empyrean weapons, most being superior, all this kill the uniqueness of everything for everyone is a drag lol. I agree with rune fencer getting an empy and a mythic but not relics, And not relics for other jobs as well, quite honestly with how easy it is to lvl a job to 99, if you want a mandau then level thf and make one, if you want a ragnarok level dark knight, not every job needs to be Plastered on every item lol.

[Damane]

I heavily disagree with relics having dnc ect plastered on them, you have job specific mythics and empyrean weapons, most being superior, all this kill the uniqueness of everything for everyone is a drag lol. I agree with rune fencer getting an empy and a mythic but not relics, And not relics for other jobs as well, quite honestly with how easy it is to lvl a job to 99, if you want a mandau then level thf and make one, if you want a ragnarok level dark knight, not every job needs to be Plastered on every item lol.

its not about uniquness, its about haveing access to the same "things" and evening the level field. I would agree with you IF Relics were job SPECIFIC like Mythics were, but allas they are not! They have multiple jobs clustered on them. Giving the remaining 5 jobs (and the 2 new upcomeing jobs) access to them would even the Field.

The same applied back then to gear selection when the new jobs were added.
PUP had no sky gear they coul access (no abjuration, no genbus suzakus etc gear)
COR was neither on homam nor on the sky god gear set (this got fixed 5 years too late with the addition of neo-limbus and the murzim set)
SCH DNC were totally left out of Salvage, Limbus (this was again fixed with neo-limbus 5 years too late!), Abjurations, kings gear etc.

If SE adds RNF and GEO to none of existing rare/ex gearsets from endgame (voidwatch, legion, sky etc etc) and doesnt add the jobs to relic and/or empy weapons, you might as well just delete them... Especially if they get no access to any form of empy or relic weapon.

[Lienn]

I guess it would be a matter of respect with the players' effort to allow the older weapons usage. An example is to have a GS with physical dmg taken- and not being able to equip on rune fencer because SE decided that the new jobs would have no access to trial of magians stuff since they lead to empy weapons.

IMO they should generalize the most they can the trials (like adding, as example, WAR and rune fencer in furure at GS...pretty much expanding each weapon to all classes that can use the merit WS of that weapon) and then having job specialization trials, like adding an extra trial that would, as example, would split GS eph trials into caladbolg (PLD/DRK) path and a new one for WAR and rune fencer, but leaving elemental and WS paths generic.

[saevel]

I guess it would be a matter of respect with the players' effort to allow the older weapons usage. An example is to have a GS with physical dmg taken- and not being able to equip on rune fencer because SE decided that the new jobs would have no access to trial of magians stuff since they lead to empy weapons.

IMO they should generalize the most they can the trials (like adding, as example, WAR and rune fencer in furure at GS...pretty much expanding each weapon to all classes that can use the merit WS of that weapon) and then having job specialization trials, like adding an extra trial that would, as example, would split GS eph trials into caladbolg (PLD/DRK) path and a new one for WAR and rune fencer, but leaving elemental and WS paths generic.

I've never seen them split trials like that. Look at the base trial, that's what determines where it goes.

Honestly SE just needs to get off their high horse with weapons / weapon skills. Put the newer jobs on relics, open all weapon skills to "if you have the skill you can use it". Individual weapon rank along with gear will determine which weapon is good for which job.

[Lienn]

I've never seen them split trials like that. Look at the base trial, that's what determines where it goes.

Honestly SE just needs to get off their high horse with weapons / weapon skills. Put the newer jobs on relics, open all weapon skills to "if you have the skill you can use it". Individual weapon rank along with gear will determine which weapon is good for which job.

Indeed. As I said, if a job can use the merit WS it should be able to equip the respective relic/empy weapon. The skill level alone is enough of balancing for weapons.

[Demon6324236]

Well~ kinda... Staff is special in the respect, not sure about other weapons... Physical staff trials are BLM/SMN/SCH only while elemental trials are WHM/BLM/RDM/BRD/SMN/SCH. Then again Staff trials are all together unique from any other trial types so idk, but it does in fact exist.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The physical and elemental trials are separate branches that's why, for staff physical starts with Trial 776 and forms Shillelagh, Elemental starts with 790 and becomes Teiwaz (all of them can use crook, as soon as you complete 776 only blm/smn/sch can use the weapon).