alliance exp vs 6 man exp request / ideas

[Bulls]

Tbh, I kind of like this idea.

I'm all for an auto group finder/content finder/etc, in my opinion the game needs one- it's needed one for ten years now.

However, the thing is... it's a bit late in the game to just simply put one in- especially in regards to exp groups.

That being said, if they can make it relevant to the game right now then they should add it.

If they can add group finder for VW or trials, or things like that it would make it easier for people to do them. Especially for people who are more on the casual end of the scale. What's more is if SE was actually interested in getting new players to FFXI it would also help new players find exp parties and the like.

More importantly, they need to make 6 man parties worth doing again. The reason everyone does exp alliances is because they're the easiest and fastest way to get levels, not because people are unable to do 6 man parties.

Finally someone that understands what I'm talking about, This is exactly what I've been trying to get across this whole time. kudos to you!

[Karbuncle]

I've understood what you were talking about just fine. The part they're responding too is your edit that appeared far after my initial posts ⌐ ⌐

Only problem i see is, thats what /seacoms are for, that "Groupping based on VW/etc" is already in the game, Its just nobody uses it :|, its sad but true.

Otherwise, Strictly the idea of Auto-Grouping or Easier finding i like, But they'll ask us to use /seacoms, that's what they're there for.

[Bulls]

I've understood what you were talking about just fine. The part they're responding too is your edit that appeared far after my initial posts ⌐ ⌐

Only problem i see is, thats what /seacoms are for, that "Groupping based on VW/etc" is already in the game, Its just nobody uses it :|, its sad but true.

Otherwise, Strictly the idea of Auto-Grouping or Easier finding i like, But they'll ask us to use /seacoms, that's what they're there for.

I was talking about the other people who commented that made absolutely no sense to what I was talking about. people that are just saying don't take away alliances you're a noob blah blah blah , you and I already had our agreements and disagreements with that long conversation we had.

That is true but if people don't ever use it, maybe that's a sign of it needing an upgrade.

[Luvbunny]

lol you haven't even read one word of my post. gtfo

Your post is blatantly clear it is an OLD SCHOOL style party, slightly revamped, where you get more xp per hours. The reason this will not work too well is the hate system currently in place. When your melee dd will out damage your tank and steal hate sooner or later. Wether you want it or not you will need an old school set up, with support job. Within a few weeks it will become "revamped old school" merit party set up again, 4 DD + bard/corsair + red mage or white mage or scholar. The old school set up is somewhat dying when ToAU was introduced so this is not new anymore. Express to 75 was a 2006 trend when people finally able to get out of Kuftal Tunnel - Boyahda Tree camp and move on to Collibri. And let's not forget the OVERCAMPED problem of yesteryear - which alliance party eliminated. Can you imagine if everyone doing old school on GoV - which you can absolutely do - there won't be any mob left for 2 parties.

Basically you are suggesting to get more xp for slightly longer kill of the mob, which this idea somewhat exist in GoV for lvl 90s mobs, but not with more xp. Hardly anyone does it. You are asking for things that pretty much exist in the game now. People do not do it because they do not see xp grind as fun. If you want to have the party dynamics again, go kill hard NMs in those new BCNMs etc... Exp grind is gone for a reason, they want you to have fun at endgame now, not taking the loooooong route to 99.

I understand you want the "old school" feel of tank, dd, healer, support job dynamic, by all means go make one. But this set up now only useful for NMs hunting, not for xp party, at least not at this age of alliance party. The style nowadays is low man party set up, or big alliance style for void watch and legion. But you should feel free to make the old school set up and have your own fun. As I said numerous times, the game gives us many choices and options now, it's all there for you to experience it, just find others with similar taste and needs.

[Bulls]

Your post is blatantly clear it is an OLD SCHOOL style party, slightly revamped, where you get more xp per hours. The reason this will not work too well is the hate system currently in place. When your melee dd will out damage your tank and steal hate sooner or later. Wether you want it or not you will need an old school set up, with support job. Within a few weeks it will become "revamped old school" merit party set up again, 4 DD + bard/corsair + red mage or white mage or scholar. The old school set up is somewhat dying when ToAU was introduced so this is not new anymore. Express to 75 was a 2006 trend when people finally able to get out of Kuftal Tunnel - Boyahda Tree camp and move on to Collibri. And let's not forget the OVERCAMPED problem of yesteryear - which alliance party eliminated. Can you imagine if everyone doing old school on GoV - which you can absolutely do - there won't be any mob left for 2 parties.

Basically you are suggesting to get more xp for slightly longer kill of the mob, which this idea somewhat exist in GoV for lvl 90s mobs, but not with more xp. Hardly anyone does it. You are asking for things that pretty much exist in the game now. People do not do it because they do not see xp grind as fun. If you want to have the party dynamics again, go kill hard NMs in those new BCNMs etc... Exp grind is gone for a reason, they want you to have fun at endgame now, not taking the loooooong route to 99.

I understand you want the "old school" feel of tank, dd, healer, support job dynamic, by all means go make one. But this set up now only useful for NMs hunting, not for xp party, at least not at this age of alliance party. The style nowadays is low man party set up, or big alliance style for void watch and legion. But you should feel free to make the old school set up and have your own fun. As I said numerous times, the game gives us many choices and options now, it's all there for you to experience it, just find others with similar taste and needs.

All you are doing is comparing old school 75 parties with my idea so apparently it's not "blatantly clear" enough for you . of course it's going to be similar because 6 man parties is what the game was made for.. its the basics of all parties. what you aren't thinking of is SE has the capability to change whatever they want. they can make leveling mobs spawn faster, areas bigger, more camping spots if they really desired to.

The only reason people migrated to merit set up 4 DDs a bard and a healer is because it was "faster exp" nothing compared to the exp of a merit party. and that has always been the mentality of the FFXI community. that is why people do alliance parties. not because they are fun but because it gives the most EXP. why do you think people afk all the time in alliance parties. if alliance leveling was so much fun no one would be going afk for long periods of time.

Just like Karbuncle said most people don't see leveling as fun, why? because no matter how much you sugar coat it or change it around it will ALWAYS be a grind, that's just how MMOs are made you quest for exp or grind in killing stuff. EXP grind is not gone the only thing gone is the low exp gain. Even today's form of alliance parties are still a grind. you grind mobs to produce a bunch of exp.


And yes that is my Idea is to bring back the "original" 6 man party feel that needs a tank to fight monsters that can't be beaten with an all DD set up with higher exp that rivals the exp an hour from a 18 man abyssea alliance so we can actually play the job for a while before the monster dies, running around randomly while people 1 shot things gets old pretty fast. the only thing similar about that from "old school" is the fighting style. giving people a lot more exp per kill takes away the "looong way" as you say to 99. The old style consisted of many hours of killing because you would only get 200 exp every 3-4 minutes.... changing that changes everything.

I know 6 man has always been there but there is no point in doing it unless SE revamps it and gives a reason to do it. it will be just a big time sink that no one will participate in when you can get 1000 times more exp in an alliance party. GOV was a good attempt at trying to add more exp but it doesn't ever compare to abyssea. and that is why no one does it , unless you do an alliance on leeches under san d oria.


killing NMs , VW, and other end game activities are fun but you can't compare leveling with end game material, both are part of the game and both are different forms of entertainment. you say we have so many options but if you think about it we really don't. if we did 6 man parties would still be alive and getting just as much exp outside of abyssea as alliance type set ups inside abyss.

you might not agree with this type of style which is fine but I hope that cleared it up for you. if not then I don't know what else to say.

Edit: oh and about the hate system, SE can tweak that as well if they wanted by maybe giving small buffs outside abyssea that gives a certain amout of enmity reduction or increase depending on the job? who knows but anything is possible.

tanks would need a lot more enmity to hold hate from something like an empyrean / relic weapon but that's how it's always been before abyssea came out, tanks would stack enmity to hold hate. shouldn't really be much of a problem outside abyssea without all those godly buffs to be honest.

[Luvbunny]

I really see no point of this, what you are suggesting somewhat exist in the game already, with one minor difference, the xp reward is not as good as abyssea or alliance style party GoV. That's about it. And yeah leveling is a GRIND that is made obsolete with the alliance style - and REPLACED by the new grind which is gears collecting via many of the so called endgame events (with its various styles and options). So in before you grind via normal xp party, now you are grinding end game contents with your various jobs, similar to most modern games. It's a major shift after abyssea introduced in 2010 - and for the better.

If your reasoning is to get rid of leechers or making people learn how to play their jobs, here is newsflash for you, if said person cannot, will not, do not want to learn the intricacy of said jobs, they will not going to spend time to do it. End of story, no matter how they are getting their said level. And your ideas are kinda outdated anyway, if 6 persons party become popular, we will have to deal with overcrowded camps, level synch, needing to find jobs xyz (there are only so many tanks and support jobs available) - SE has to revamped the entire game system outside abyssea which they are not willing to do - if the last two years telling you anything. After 10 years, everyone wants to have fun at the end game, not climbing the ladder to 99 - let's face it, the fun is AT THE END GAME content.

And yes we do have options, so you can choose what and how you want to level, the fact that the majority of people do not want to do the 6 persons party should give you a clear warning why such idea will never take hold. Unless SE is giving you 2k per kill which at the end negate the whole points since you will level so fast, you are not exactly "learning" how to play other than the 6 persons party style. This also pose a problem because their skill level will not be able to scale up with how fast they are leveling up, and for some jobs, example: blue mage, it is not viable at all since the gap would get higher and higher and render the jobs useless, not to mention you will have to move camp every 30 mnts or so since the mob will no longer give the desired xp. SE would have to create a bunch of new mobs that spawn super fast, does not link or aggro, and auto scale up to your highest level of your party leader - which at this point of the game, they would probably said no thanks.

Seal farming is pretty much your old school party style, you need a tank, a nuker, and a healer at the very minimal, or a tank who can cure (dancer, ninja/dancer) and a nuker who can cure (blm/whm) and for harder NMs you need your typical 6 persons set up. What is consider a tank also changed greatly now, with DDs able to take over the role, and evasion tanks are preferred over blood tank for majority of the contents. You do realize that you CAN make a 6 person style abysea party, it is called CLEAVE party (blm, blue, war, thief or dancer, with white mage and bard). This set up will give you just as much xp as the alliance style and everyone in the party actually HAVE TO WORK their ass off.

[Luvbunny]

The auto finder is a nice feature if they can make it similar to what Blizzard did for World of Warcraft. But in order to do that they will have to create instanced area with 30 mnts limit where you get to kill everything in sight and get exp at the end. They did this with Moblin Maze and back in the days was a viable alternative to merit party - but now SE does not bother to rework it. There are several new BCNMs that use it as inspiration where you kill tons of mobs and you need healer. The point is that all these variety of activities are not "how to level up" kind of thing, but more of end game type of contents. Perhaps they will come up with something new next year with the expansion but if you notice, their focus now is to give us variety of new endgame contents with multiple "new" gears to collect. Abyssea and GoV is pretty much their answer to how you should level up your jobs.

[Bulls]

I really see no point of this, what you are suggesting somewhat exist in the game already, with one minor difference, the xp reward is not as good as abyssea or alliance style party GoV. That's about it. And yeah leveling is a GRIND that is made obsolete with the alliance style - and REPLACED by the new grind which is gears collecting via many of the so called endgame events (with its various styles and options). So in before you grind via normal xp party, now you are grinding end game contents with your various jobs, similar to most modern games. It's a major shift after abyssea introduced in 2010 - and for the better.

If your reasoning is to get rid of leechers or making people learn how to play their jobs, here is newsflash for you, if said person cannot, will not, do not want to learn the intricacy of said jobs, they will not going to spend time to do it. End of story, no matter how they are getting their said level. And your ideas are kinda outdated anyway, if 6 persons party become popular, we will have to deal with overcrowded camps, level synch, needing to find jobs xyz (there are only so many tanks and support jobs available) - SE has to revamped the entire game system outside abyssea which they are not willing to do - if the last two years telling you anything. After 10 years, everyone wants to have fun at the end game, not climbing the ladder to 99 - let's face it, the fun is AT THE END GAME content.

And yes we do have options, so you can choose what and how you want to level, the fact that the majority of people do not want to do the 6 persons party should give you a clear warning why such idea will never take hold. Unless SE is giving you 2k per kill which at the end negate the whole points since you will level so fast, you are not exactly "learning" how to play other than the 6 persons party style. This also pose a problem because their skill level will not be able to scale up with how fast they are leveling up, and for some jobs, example: blue mage, it is not viable at all since the gap would get higher and higher and render the jobs useless, not to mention you will have to move camp every 30 mnts or so since the mob will no longer give the desired xp. SE would have to create a bunch of new mobs that spawn super fast, does not link or aggro, and auto scale up to your highest level of your party leader - which at this point of the game, they would probably said no thanks.

Seal farming is pretty much your old school party style, you need a tank, a nuker, and a healer at the very minimal, or a tank who can cure (dancer, ninja/dancer) and a nuker who can cure (blm/whm) and for harder NMs you need your typical 6 persons set up. What is consider a tank also changed greatly now, with DDs able to take over the role, and evasion tanks are preferred over blood tank for majority of the contents. You do realize that you CAN make a 6 person style abysea party, it is called CLEAVE party (blm, blue, war, thief or dancer, with white mage and bard). This set up will give you just as much xp as the alliance style and everyone in the party actually HAVE TO WORK their ass off.

The only thing I didn't think of is the skilling up part , they would have to make skilling up faster.

But other than that the only thing I can say to all that is we agree to disagree I see things differently than you do and vise versa.

[Bulls]

The auto finder is a nice feature if they can make it similar to what Blizzard did for World of Warcraft. But in order to do that they will have to create instanced area with 30 mnts limit where you get to kill everything in sight and get exp at the end. They did this with Moblin Maze and back in the days was a viable alternative to merit party - but now SE does not bother to rework it. There are several new BCNMs that use it as inspiration where you kill tons of mobs and you need healer. The point is that all these variety of activities are not "how to level up" kind of thing, but more of end game type of contents. Perhaps they will come up with something new next year with the expansion but if you notice, their focus now is to give us variety of new endgame contents with multiple "new" gears to collect. Abyssea and GoV is pretty much their answer to how you should level up your jobs.

Not really, games don't need to be like wow you can have an autofinder without an instance. they can indeed make an auto finder to gather peoples specific jobs and have it warp them to the entrance of some zone of choice where they can run to camp. The only thing they wouldn't be able to do without instance type zones is all world auto finder gathering ppl from all servers.

[Luvbunny]

The only thing I didn't think of is the skilling up part , they would have to make skilling up faster.

But other than that the only thing I can say to all that is we agree to disagree I see things differently than you do and vise versa.

Its good to have ideas, though for yours to work they have to do massive revamping, and SE will not do this. Skillup is like a free time sink for them, and they will not let us do faster skill ups, ever!! Otherwise everyone will do the new way of partying, alliance style lol, doing GoV for massive skill ups - which sadly they actually CAN but yet this has not been pick up by the majority of people and most tend doing it solo the slow way.

The current way of leveling is the best solution from SE part, it get rid of massive annoying problems of changing camps, level synch, finding xyz jobs etc... It democratize leveling and put everyone in similar playing field. And yeah, people took advantage of this, which is predictable, its human nature.