HNMs and the future of FFXI

[Winrie]

Pft, old school HNM can bite my Elvaan behind.

I don't miss it. In fact, most people don't miss it.

If you miss the so called "challenge" from old endgame then go do VW and Aby w/o buffs. If you want to go and "camp" (read: sit and do nothing for hours) land kings all over again then go and do it, nobody is stopping you. Likewise, if you want old exp party format then go and make one, but don't come to these forums and give SE bad ideas/advice. They're liable to follow it.

This game becoming more casual player friendly is one of the best things that's ever happened to it, hands down. If anything it needs to keep moving forward, not backwards. If anything SE needs to go back and either revive old content or get rid of it altogether.

Bolded to point out retardation, If most people didn't like the system then you wouldn't have a thread so large about the topic. Secondly sorry, having to gimp yourself on purpose to 'enjoy' something is not good game design, if i have to forcefully make myself weak to enjoy a challenge then something has to change.

I'm also sorry but mentioning glavoid ect. is foolish, let alone anything Abyssea related, every mob in abyssea was difficult, yet still easily manageable at their related level caps at the time. And as the months went by it got stupider, and easier, to a point now a BST can solo mostly everything in this game now when it hits 99, most cases even lower level. But seriously, if you don't like a system or suggestion someone makes on the forums, i think simply inputting your opinion yes or no is smarter than ranting on about how stupid it is, everyone has a different preference in how they play this game, from you to habu, telling someone to not bring their ideas to these forums defeats the purpose of the forums itself. Sorry~

[Habu]

You mean to tell me you don't like sitting around doing nothing?

D=!!! omgnowai!!

Golly Gee! Habu! Here I thought this is precisely what your post was about!

/end sarcasm

Cause that's pretty much what you did in old school endgame and that's precisely why people don't want to go back to it.

I still camp Tiamat since it's pretty much the last worthwhile HNM, she is good to me, usually brings in 18-36M split between two people.

But seriously, if you don't like a system or suggestion someone makes on the forums, i think simply inputting your opinion yes or no is smarter than ranting on about how stupid it is, everyone has a different preference in how they play this game, from you to habu, telling someone to not bring their ideas to these forums defeats the purpose of the forums itself. Sorry~

Quoted for truth

[Randwolf]

Funny this arguing is going on forever. Most of you wouldn't care if all the elite drops from HNM's could also be acquired through another means. At least that is what your posts seem to say. And, I think that you then would be left with the group that likes camping HNM's for the sake of that system and not the elitism. Everyone wins. Whether S/E would implement such a thing is another question.

[Sparthos]

I can't speak for the others, but for me it's two things. First of all, personally, I like the exclusiveness of rare items. That's also why I went out of my way to camp very rare NMs/drops, because rarity is something that excites me. I like being rewarded for dedication. It's why I wasted 80M on KB and it's also why I still camp Noble Mold. I don't think a Rain Hat will do me much good at this point, but I still wanna have it. I like possessing rare items.

I can appreciate the rare item sentiment but yet again world spawns aren't needed for this and at least to me, collecting a bunch of rare items from around the world to do battle with a badass monster that has a rare drop is in every way superior to sitting at a spot, waiting days on end for it spawn only to lose it to the guy running a bot while he's asleep.

When I got my Hachiryu Haidate and Haramaki I was thrilled because I built those popsets, I helped kill all the trash mobs and finally when Pandemonium Warden came around I had the knowledge that I had been involved at every point in getting these two pieces of very rare and highly sought gear and none of it involved AFKing for hours on end. I was... playing FFXI and earning my keep.

Secondly, I like competition. I know it sounds weird, especially because I hate it in other places (like Dynamis for example), but there is a reason behind it. I like feeling like I'm chasing something big and the feeling when I win against others is great. And I am fully aware that it doesn't have anything at all to do with skill but just luck. But that's always a factor. It's like hunting for a treasure against others, and someone just gets a lucky break and finds it first. That doesn't mean they're more skilled or anything, but that doesn't make the chase any less fun, it doesn't make the thrill go away. The feeling when you get a claim is really rewarding, even if it was just luck and nothing else. I'm sure you'd enjoy winning the lottery as well, even if you know there isn't any skill involved.

There was very little 'competition' at Kings by the time programs took over the claiming processes on most servers. Your lottery analogy works in RL because everyone has a fair (albeit microscopic) chance of winning but this was not the case with the competitive aspects of FFXI. Would people be so eager to put down money in RL if the odds were not only microscopic but it were known that certain people had higher odds through seeing some of the numbers prior to a drawing? There was very little luck here, just guys desperate enough to pay good sums for bots that gave an advantage over others and worse, SE couldn't/didn't do a thing about it.

Competition is great but if we really wanted competition in XI we'd be asking to create a PVP or team PVP system within the existing framework of Brenner where some level of skill would determine if your team won or lost matches. If people really wanted the 'thrills' of dynamic environments where your opponents moves were to some extent were unknown sprinkled in with the boons of drama that came with wins or losses PVP again does a superior job of delivering that style of content to Kings. Players get to bring skill to the table and put up, the really skilled would be rewarded, the less skilled would get owned by the vets and drama would be in excess across the board.

Why does no one bring PVP to the table? Because to some extent the idea of dominating claims, being the liege lord of Ebodies - deciding who gets to don the blue suit of win - was intoxicating. The calls of skill and competition will always take a backseat to the nature of wanting to 'own' an HNM by any tools necessary.

And I also must admit that I enjoy the occasional HNM drama, although I know that people will tear this statement apart, but whatever. I liked people raging over a flailed Fafnir, accuse others of all kinds of shit when they lost claim, or wasting everyone's Chainspell by pulling one Knight Crab out of range and holding it. In before "that says all about you as a person", like I care. It was good times and I enjoyed it.

I too enjoyed drama to some extent (nerdraging over losing Sandworm because hes a slow POS, claiming Dark Ixion and holding him on solo RNG while my guys poured into zone, enjoying the LS vitriol when someone CFH'd Aspid at 2AM standout) but at that point my enjoyment was coming at the expense of the game as a whole. The game shouldn't have been for only a handful of people and by '09 this game was in a crappy place because SE built the entire game around that core elite event that became infested with people so desperate to 'own' that the worst type of people became internet celebrities while actual players were left with three choices:

1. Struggle through the hoops of content like Einherjar while the cheaters cheat.
2. Pay highly inflated sums to people gaming the system.
3. Quit this MMO and move on to greener pastures.

If we really wanted hardcore, top of the crop elitist drama we all should have been playing EVE online instead of this. XI just never delivered and most of the content when we boil away the emotions were pretty poorly pieced together and Kings was one of the worst offenders.

[FrankReynolds]

Your post and the one before it just makes my head hurt... we're lazy and don't want to work yet "most" of the "elite" still have the best gear, regardless of how much we have to "work" for it. You know that kind os defines the term "elite" having the best gear possible or damn near it, and since we have "no lives" we have infinite time to do all this "work". Seriously enough with the bot garbage, not everyone who claimed/did HNMs botted, that's just a poor excuse for a person who either A. just got outclaimed or B. doesn't like HNMs.

You say people got out claimed as is that had anything to do with skill level. It didn't. and for the record, I had every good King drop except for D ring back at 75.

I don't like HNM because I like to play FFXI. I don't like to just have it running on the other screen to keep me company. A 3 hour spawn window means 3 hours of not playing. I can not play a game for 3 hours from anywhere in the world without paying 12.95 a month. As a matter of fact, trying to explain why you want to pay to do nothing for 3 hours a day is a sure sign of dementia.

People still camp all those crappy NMs required for Empyrian weapons. Why don't you go bot those? You could get tons of competition that way. I'm sure people would love you.

[Hercule]

You say people got out claimed as is that had anything to do with skill level. It didn't. and for the record, I had every good King drop except for D ring back at 75.

I don't like HNM because I like to play FFXI. I don't like to just have it running on the other screen to keep me company. A 3 hour spawn window means 3 hours of not playing. I can not play a game for 3 hours from anywhere in the world without paying 12.95 a month. As a matter of fact, trying to explain why you want to pay to do nothing for 3 hours a day is a sure sign of dementia.

People still camp all those crappy NMs required for Empyrian weapons. Why don't you go bot those? You could get tons of competition that way. I'm sure people would love you.

I post my thread again,
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Lv99%E2%80%8F
This is the thread i made about how we could reintroduce and made HNM world pop better, you can think my ideas are bad or what you want, but if you have better idea(s) about how reintroduce World Pop HNM, you should start a Thread about it

But i agree old world pop HNM with 3 hours+ camp was a too long wait

[Camiie]

Funny this arguing is going on forever. Most of you wouldn't care if all the elite drops from HNM's could also be acquired through another means. At least that is what your posts seem to say. And, I think that you then would be left with the group that likes camping HNM's for the sake of that system and not the elitism. Everyone wins. Whether S/E would implement such a thing is another question.

Actually I don't want to see them go down this path at all. The game is actually better by its omission. That's how awful a concept the 21-24+ hour HNM is. A system that breeds inactivity, botting, and drama the way HNM did is nothing but a blight upon the game and its community.

One of the smartest things SE has ever done is change the old kings and move present/future content into more active, inclusive, and cooperative directions. Alternate sources of loot be damned. I'd forgo the shiniest shinies of all just to not have Vana'diel polluted with this ridiculous, archaic nonsense ever again.

[Habu]

You say people got out claimed as is that had anything to do with skill level. It didn't. and for the record, I had every good King drop except for D ring back at 75.

I don't like HNM because I like to play FFXI. I don't like to just have it running on the other screen to keep me company. A 3 hour spawn window means 3 hours of not playing. I can not play a game for 3 hours from anywhere in the world without paying 12.95 a month. As a matter of fact, trying to explain why you want to pay to do nothing for 3 hours a day is a sure sign of dementia.

People still camp all those crappy NMs required for Empyrian weapons. Why don't you go bot those? You could get tons of competition that way. I'm sure people would love you.

Because current FFXI still doesn't require you to wait for something, it does. If you don't want to do HNMs don't do them, no one will be forcing you. Again bots, diaf. I don't bot my LS never did, and we had a pretty decent claim rate. This especially goes for DI/SW and yet I still would like to see something like Faf/KB/Aspid brought back because I liked them. Did we claim everyday no, was it still for ~>ME<~ yes.

[Benihana]

EVE Online is a pretty epic game, actually. lolz

love it lol

still want new world hnm though.

I love how everyones getting screwed by vw, legion and neo nyzul ( and probably soon to be other events) and yet they still TREMBLE WITH FEAR, WITH THE THOUGHT OF WORLD SPAWNING MONSTERS!

Honestly, the events now are as backbreaking as they ever were, it's just hidden behind a different game mechanic.

[FrankReynolds]

Because current FFXI still doesn't require you to wait for something, it does. If you don't want to do HNMs don't do them, no one will be forcing you.

Thanks for pointing that out. there are probably a few other areas where they could eliminate waiting too. People are required to wait for lots of things. I have yet to hear anyone say they wished there was more waiting in life. Are you one of the slowski turtles from the broadband commercials on TV? If so which one? the husband or the wife?

If they added HNMs with shit gear, no one would do them. It's all about the gear. As long as the gear from these HNMs is anywhere near as good / easy to get as other methods, people will be more or less forced to do them.

Again bots, diaf. I don't bot my LS never did, and we had a pretty decent claim rate. This especially goes for DI/SW and yet I still would like to see something like Faf/KB/Aspid brought back because I liked them. Did we claim everyday no, was it still for ~>ME<~ yes.

Yes bots again. They are a fact, not fiction. You can't change that no matter how many times you blab about how you have the mad claiming skillz.