regardinf TH - unbalanced pet jobs

[Ihnako]

This person is on a hate BST bandwagon necause i didnt see anything in that text wall that was unfair or unbalanced wich makes me think the poster doesnt even know what hes talking about..

The point is you'r obvously not reading or understanding what I'm saying.

Point is you'r focus is right now on PUP vs. BST.
And I also showed that there are a bunch of other pet jobs who are in the same wagon as PUP and do have less options.
In case you want to compare by gil. And I don't count any equipment that will increase the effect - so only basic stats.

Let's check:
Automation Oil +2 will be sold by NPC for 6k a stack and will heal your Automaton for 30% of its maximum hit points, plus 900 HP over 90 seconds at the rate of 30 HP per tick.
A similar pet food will be Pet Food Zeta Biscuit for 18k at each AH on Odin.
Repair/Heal wise PUP wins.

What about your pet.
I've allready spend a few millions to get an automation that could be called decend.
A BST get's a Pet for free up to a few hundred gil. But let's check what Dippy will cost you - atm 89k a stack.
For 89k an automation won't last longer than an eyeblink and you'll still using your initial automation. ><;
So let's calculate a cheap 2 million gil automation vs. Dippy - So you have buy 23 stacks (or 270 Dippy) before it will ruin your pocket.

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

So the truth is - your pet is the tank and the TH machine (that will increase the TH-level chancewise with every succsessfull hit) while you'r the one who's procing and healing your tank.
You'r pet doesn't support you - you support your pet.

But what about the other pet jobs?
I've seen a few DRG doing dynamis but most of the time they where resting.
SMN? I've duoed with a friend of mine and it's no fun at all cause you've to deal with MP consumption vs. pet health vs. hate level vs. your own HP.

[Glamdring]

The point is you'r obvously not reading or understanding what I'm saying.

Point is you'r focus is right now on PUP vs. BST.
And I also showed that there are a bunch of other pet jobs who are in the same wagon as PUP and do have less options.
In case you want to compare by gil. And I don't count any equipment that will increase the effect - so only basic stats.

Let's check:
Automation Oil +2 will be sold by NPC for 6k a stack and will heal your Automaton for 30% of its maximum hit points, plus 900 HP over 90 seconds at the rate of 30 HP per tick.
A similar pet food will be Pet Food Zeta Biscuit for 18k at each AH on Odin.
Repair/Heal wise PUP wins.

What about your pet.
I've allready spend a few millions to get an automation that could be called decend.
A BST get's a Pet for free up to a few hundred gil. But let's check what Dippy will cost you - atm 89k a stack.
For 89k an automation won't last longer than an eyeblink and you'll still using your initial automation. ><;
So let's calculate a cheap 2 million gil automation vs. Dippy - So you have buy 23 stacks (or 270 Dippy) before it will ruin your pocket.

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

So the truth is - your pet is the tank and the TH machine (that will increase the TH-level chancewise with every succsessfull hit) while you'r the one who's procing and healing your tank.
You'r pet doesn't support you - you support your pet.

But what about the other pet jobs?
I've seen a few DRG doing dynamis but most of the time they where resting.
SMN? I've duoed with a friend of mine and it's no fun at all cause you've to deal with MP consumption vs. pet health vs. hate level vs. your own HP.

um... pup absolutely rocks in dynamis, use a mage pup and go pup/dnc yourself, you hit all 3 procs on the majority of kills. I'm not even particularily well gearred on my pup and I'm good for 100 coins per run on average, and I don't even try that hard.

The real screw-up in that equation is that a thf with base TH7 either /dnc or /nin isn't going to outdo my pup (with base TH 0) in terms of coin drops, and with base TH that much higher they really should, if TH counts at all. THAT is what SE needs to look at.

I've even tried going rng/nin to have a 3 proc job with TH3, using an x-bow and a truckload of bloody bolts to stay in it. Too much downtime, but even just counting actual engaged time I didn't approach my pup (27 coins for the entire run, figured on 45 minutes of down-time, 18 minutes getting the TEs are included in the downtime number). Although I must admit, my ranger is in serious need of a skill-up party and some improved gear, still, I doubt that even if my gear was the "OMGUberness" and skill was capped that it would approach my pup.

[Calamity]

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

I don't understand your problem then. if you have bst leveled, and you get more coins as bst, then why don't you just enjoy it rather than complaining about it?

I might also add that you're talking as if bst is just super overpowered vs all these other jobs while only focusing on a single small aspect of the game, which is old content. Sure, bst can outperform a smn, pup or drg in dynamis but let's look at other, parts of the game. Specifically current content. Tell me how often you see bst in VW? Never is the answer. Dragoons and smns are more than welcome in just about any endgame content. Bst is not. It is in fact completely useless in VW. Even the infamous "lolpup" is more welcome in endgame than bst is.

And you wanna talk about overpowered, how about a pet that can use top tier white and black magic that by rights should be exclusive to black mage and white mage, and they can do this with NO ENMITY and for that matter, almost no downside at all. And shall we compare maneuvers to Ready? Pet attacks with relatively low recast timers vs pet attacks, many of which are useless which require not only 100% tp on the pet, but also have a recast of 1-3 minutes depending on the move.

I'm sorry, everything you've said in this entire thread has been 1 sided and filtered so that you only look at a single aspect of the game and everybody seems to know it but you. No, no I think I'm actually mistaken. I'm sure you do know and just don't care. Every job has it's specialties. Soloing is bst's specialty. SE made it that way and both SE and the players have done everything they can to make sure bst stays a solo onry job. Deal with it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Eitherway it's a moot point when you can get a Sash for PUP with TH+1 the same as what BST will have.

OP is acting as if gear swapping is hard to do...

[Kristal]

And you wanna talk about overpowered, how about a pet that can use top tier white and black magic that by rights should be exclusive to black mage and white mage, and they can do this with NO ENMITY and for that matter, almost no downside at all. And shall we compare maneuvers to Ready? Pet attacks with relatively low recast timers vs pet attacks, many of which are useless which require not only 100% tp on the pet, but also have a recast of 1-3 minutes depending on the move.

That magic is still exclusive to WHM and BLM. Soulsoother is a pocket WHM that can cast up to Cure VI but no Cura, Curaga, Banish, Holy, etc, Spiritreaver is a pocket BLM that can cast up to tier V, but no -aga, -aja, AM, AMII, Comet, Meteor, etc. And no choice in the casting either.. at best you can hint it, but no hint will prevent casting a tier V nuke where a BLM would use a different element or not cast at all.
Comparing Maneuvers to Ready is silly. Maneuvers are not attacks at all, they are hints for the automaton to do something sometime whenever it pleases. And don't forget using 3 maneuvers a minute incurs a -10% attack speed effect, and you risk overload if you don't manage it properly.

[Ihnako]

Eitherway it's a moot point when you can get a Sash for PUP with TH+1 the same as what BST will have.

OP is acting as if gear swapping is hard to do...

That's where you'r jumping on conclusions. Since I figured out that the TH of a pet is infact superior to no TH or to just switch it in for one hit while a party with a real THF will still perform better.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

That's where you'r jumping on conclusions. Since I figured out that the TH of a pet is infact superior to no TH or to just switch it in for one hit while a party with a real THF will still perform better.

What!?

Lord have mercy... Your main job is PUP the reality is you want TH on PUP you could care less about other jobs, you're using BST as a reasoning why PUP should have it. You're wrong, if you want TH get the sash and voila, done.

Now stop beating the horse, it's already dead.

[Calamity]

That magic is still exclusive to WHM and BLM. Soulsoother is a pocket WHM that can cast up to Cure VI but no Cura, Curaga, Banish, Holy, etc, Spiritreaver is a pocket BLM that can cast up to tier V, but no -aga, -aja, AM, AMII, Comet, Meteor, etc. And no choice in the casting either.. at best you can hint it, but no hint will prevent casting a tier V nuke where a BLM would use a different element or not cast at all.
Comparing Maneuvers to Ready is silly. Maneuvers are not attacks at all, they are hints for the automaton to do something sometime whenever it pleases. And don't forget using 3 maneuvers a minute incurs a -10% attack speed effect, and you risk overload if you don't manage it properly.

But it does sound like a very convincing argument doesn't it? Just making a point. Anybody can omit certain facts to make their argument sound more just, but it's no less untrue. To be honest I was kinda hoping Ihnako would tackle that one himself but that's quite alright. The point is made.

[Sappho]

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

LIKE needing to bring a BLM for every single seal/coin/stone/jewel/card farm in Abyssea?

That's a terrible idea.

[Xilk]

BTW, bluemage also can get th 1 from spell traits, and equip the th+1 belt. so they can th2 w/out /thf