Ideas to improve Neo Nyzul

[Greatguardian]

Might as well add the "get TE from boss" idea to this thread. Even a 5 minute TE from each boss would help out a bit but not make the event a pushover which seems to be their concern.

+1.

A lot of the ideas suggested in the various Neo Nyzul threads would make the event way too easy, to be frank. A 45 minute time limit off the bat would be absolutely ridiculous, and you'd go from "No one can hit 100" to "Everyone with half a brain can hit 100 even with a couple mules".

Likewise, anything that allows saving is broken from the get-go. It is absolutely not hard to hit floor 50 in one no-boss run even with a party of full aurore mules. Getting to 100 becomes the only floor worth shooting for for anyone, a sure sign that the event is, again, way too easy.

This event is only slightly harder than it should be, in my opinion. It is too hard/random, but at the same time applying huge, major, premise-changing adjustments to it will make it far too easy to be any fun.

Ideally, 100 should be consistently reachable by a solid, high-end group 60-80% of the time. The event should scale in such a way that low-tier groups, or disorganized groups will have to content themselves with floors 20 and 40 the majority of the time. The idea is to make the event hard enough that high-end players have a use for all those 0.5-1%~ efficiency increases they've been grinding out for years, and are unable to just leave bot/afk-mules laying around, while not too hard that even an ideal group can consistently fail the majority of the time due to jump luck.

Frankly, if you and your group aren't as good as the top-tier, you shouldn't be hitting Floors 80-100. For anyone still wearing a single piece of Aurore or Perle, even floor 20-40 items can be an upgrade. There is no point in getting better if everyone is good enough. There is no point in success when everyone gets a medal. If you want a medal, and you're unable to get one, improve yourself and your group until you can.

5 minute TEs on boss floors will potentially make it easier for top-tier groups to hit floor 100 without making things piss-easy for low-tier groups (I mean, if you spend more than 5 minutes on the boss then you're losing net time).

Secondary objectives per-floor was something I mentioned in the other thread and I think would work out fairly well. Assign a small pool of player buffs (Regen+Refresh, Regain, 30 second TE, All Stats+) as the potential rewards for completing a secondary objective, but inform the player which reward coincides with which objective at the Rune. That way players are able to make the tactical decision whether or not to pursue any particular secondary objective on a per-floor basis.

Example text from the Rune would look like:
"Welcome to floor 47. Primary Objective: Kill specified enemy. Secondary Objective: Avoid detection. Secondary Reward: Regain."

In regards to temp items: A 2-minute lobby area for temps would be ideal, similar to the Legion lobby. This way, players will be able to get their temps without cutting into the event's primary time limit - allowing for more strategic use of items.

This is all minor stuff, because that's all the event really needs - Minor changes. Tweaks. The devs implemented this on the test server with cheat codes enabled, and thus we were unable to give them proper feedback on event difficulty. I get that they want this event to be hard. I want it to be hard, too. But I don't want it to be impossible, or improbable enough to be considered impossible.

Luck in general is fine. Luck makes things interesting, dynamic, unique. But 1% odds are stupid. The players are sick of them. It's not fun any more. It was never really fun to begin with.

[FrankReynolds]

Ideally, 100 should be consistently reachable by a solid, high-end group 60-80% of the time. The event should scale in such a way that low-tier groups, or disorganized groups will have to content themselves with floors 20 and 40 the majority of the time. The idea is to make the event hard enough that high-end players have a use for all those 0.5-1%~ efficiency increases they've been grinding out for years, and are unable to just leave bot/afk-mules laying around, while not too hard that even an ideal group can consistently fail the majority of the time due to jump luck.

Frankly, if you and your group aren't as good as the top-tier, you shouldn't be hitting Floors 80-100. For anyone still wearing a single piece of Aurore or Perle, even floor 20-40 items can be an upgrade. There is no point in getting better if everyone is good enough. There is no point in success when everyone gets a medal. If you want a medal, and you're unable to get one, improve yourself and your group until you can.

This is why they need a point system, and not a bunch of lottery crap. Making it so hard that XYZ pieces of gear are required in order to ever be good enough to reach floor 100 makes it so that people who haven't got XYZ are automatically excluded.

People who have gear that allows them to perform 2.37% better should be getting through content 2.37% faster. They shouldn't be getting to do content that people who perform 2.37% worse can't do at all.

[Greatguardian]

This is why they need a point system, and not a bunch of lottery crap. Making it so hard that XYZ pieces of gear are required in order to ever be good enough to reach floor 100 makes it so that people who haven't got XYZ are automatically excluded.

People who have gear that allows them to perform 2.37% better should be getting through content 2.37% faster. They shouldn't be getting to do content that people who perform 2.37% worse can't do at all.

They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

[Kimble]

Any event that requires you to hack (fillmode, clipper, speed hacking) is just poor content over all.

[Greatguardian]

Pfft,

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Regain_Feather

[Vold]

I guess I can't really forget about how I do strongly believe in content for players with top tier gear. It's utterly pointless to obtain if it does not propel you to new heights(meaning doing content you could not previously do, which is why I like Abyssea, there is a very clear difference between a newbie Abyssea character and a veteran character that has the gear and atmas and buffs) So I support the idea that top tiered players should be making it to floor 100 on their own accord. SE could go about things better than leaving that jump to 100 as pure chance. Top players should reach floor 100 consistently, not when the system decides to gift you with access. Any fixes to the system will inevitably lead to lower tier groups getting further in nyzul but whatever, floor 100 gear is still #1 and they ain't gonna see it.

[Scribble]

Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

I'm 102.4% sure that people entering Neo Nyzul are going in to attempt to clear the content. Maybe if the top tier gear were drops from any boss or found in chests on any level you'd have people who didn't care, but I think most everyone enters to clear it.

I agree with your statement about content requiring 'the best' or at least a strong, organized group to do well. The word 'challenge' however, doesn't quite fit an event where being lucky in terms of which type of floor you get, which mob type is required for that floor and the luck you have with moving up ??? levels.

Remove the luck if you want Neo NI to be skill-based or vice versa. An average group could get lucky enough to advance to floor 80 while a geared, 'skilled' and coordinated group could get shafted by floor types and the RNG of lamping for ???.

Somewhat related: I can't help but get the feeling that SE doesn't really grasp the concept of 'progression'.

[Ravenmore]

They're not excluded. They're just reaping less powerful rewards. Floor 100 doesn't need to be the goal for everybody. Likewise, though, it should be the goal for somebody which is the problem the event faces as is. It's poorly... balanced.

I have no real fundamental issues with content requiring "the best" to complete, though. If I'm not good enough to do something, I get better until I am. Where's the challenge otherwise?

Thats all well and good but at this point in the games life you can't push content that only offers 1 to 2% gain for a 100% more effort. It would be one thing if the 60, 80, and 100 gear far better then what we already have but its simply not.

[Koren]

Have each boss drop a R/EX ticket that will warp a party from floor 1 to boss floor+1. We now have floor progression so long as we defeat the bosses as well as the inability to just spam the boss floors. Less geared/skilled/cooperative groups can possibly progress 20 floors at a time to eventually reach floor 100 while better groups can work faster to reach floor 100 in fewer runs. As an added twist, the game can still screw us if we miss boss floors; using a floor 61 ticket, overshoot floor 80 either have to try to reach floor 100 or give up. Either way you've lost the ticket and have to start from the bottom again.

SE is happy because the RNG will mess players up on the floor progression (starting at floor 81 and getting skips of 3 floors at a time with giant kill all rooms of slimes while avoiding gear detection with black magic pathos and running out of time on floor 96). Lesser skilled groups will be happy to get their progression, but will complain how it gets increasingly harder to get people to help due to others being finished with it and never wanting to do it again with the gimps. And the well skilled players will be happy because they will be able to rapidly put the whole unpleasant business behind them, but will be complaining about lack of content and all the gimp S.O.B.s who, we are assured, couldn't find their own buttocks with both hands, a map, and 3 friends with flashlights still shouting for help with something a can of tuna could accomplish.

Then we turn back to Voidwatch, which everyone agrees would be good content if only the miners and lumberjacks from the other dimension would stop trying to invade our world. Then eyes turn to Legion, as we wonder why we are apparently murdering weavers and grocers due to the unnatural amount of thread and fresh produce being collected there.

[Monchat]

btw JP seem to do this event a lot lol. 50 people in nyzul during the JP prime so I wouldn't say it's dead (yet).