Battle Balance Adjustment: TP Gained through Use of a Weaponskill

[Rukkirii]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP. As such, there are no plans to increase the effect of Miser Roll because it would cancel out the point of the save TP adjustment. Miser Roll's save TP effect will still stack with other effects and equipment.

[SpankWustler]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP. As such, there are no plans to increase the effect of Miser Roll because it would cancel out the point of the save TP adjustment. Miser Roll's save TP effect will still stack with other effects and equipment.

Because of the specific nature of this adjustment, Miser's Roll will ONLY have a palpable effect in situations where a large amount of Save TP is present from another source. Couldn't the same limitations be imposed through a hard cap on total TP return from a weaponskill + Save TP + other stuff or something similar?

[Rohelius]

Because of the specific nature of this adjustment, Miser's Roll will ONLY have a palpable effect in situations where a large amount of Save TP is present from another source. Couldn't the same limitations be imposed through a hard cap on total TP return from a weaponskill + Save TP + other stuff or something similar?

But that would cap SAM too and that's a no no in SE's book.

[Greatguardian]

Because of the specific nature of this adjustment, Miser's Roll will ONLY have a palpable effect in situations where a large amount of Save TP is present from another source. Couldn't the same limitations be imposed through a hard cap on total TP return from a weaponskill + Save TP + other stuff or something similar?

Seriously, this. Just hard cap WS TP return at 50. A standard 2-hand DD getting Miser's Roll is going to be looking at a 45% TP return, exactly what you'd get with the current adjustments if you combine Atmacite of Discipline and Miser's Roll.

And if the Devs are intentionally giving you misleading or bad information, then I must apologize to you Ruki. However, it's nothing short of rage-inducing when the Developers set off everyone's bullshit-o-meter by bringing up Conserve TP and Save TP in the same sentence. They don't stack. We know they don't stack, so the Devs who programmed the bloody traits in the first place ought to know that they don't bloody stack.

[Dragoy]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP.

However it is OK for the Monsters to do this, yes?

Haha, sorry... I just had to. ^^

[Mirabelle]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP. As such, there are no plans to increase the effect of Miser Roll because it would cancel out the point of the save TP adjustment. Miser Roll's save TP effect will still stack with other effects and equipment.

Strange how this didn't matter when they introduced an atmacite of 20 Save TP, knowing full well it would stack with other Save TP effects. Then they are shocked when people get 1-2 hit builds.
Listen SE, COR's spent money on this roll only to have it made less useful than SAM roll, a roll we got 4 years and 35 levels ago at a lower cost. If you do this, you might as well remove the roll, give us our Gil back and introduce a haste roll.

The whole population is asking for a cap on TP returned. Just tell us why that is impossible when almost all the players are in agreement it is a superior option.

[Motenten]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP. As such, there are no plans to increase the effect of Miser Roll because it would cancel out the point of the save TP adjustment. Miser Roll's save TP effect will still stack with other effects and equipment.

All right, Rukkirii -- Direct question.

Player understanding is that Save TP and Conserve TP do not stack. That is, if you have any sort of Save TP buff present, Conserve TP cannot activate. As such, it cannot and should not be a factor in any decision related to Save TP adjustments. Are the devs working from the assumption that they stack? Are they misapprehending the mechanics, or is player testing faulty?

I can understand a concern about TP return if someone not completely familiar with the interrelations between the effects looked at the combo and thought, "25 TP return on the weaponskill, 25 Save TP from Miser's Roll, 20 Save TP from Atmacite, and a possible 20 TP Conserve TP proc gives back 90 TP! Add a couple ticks of Tactician's Roll and regain Atmacite and they could weaponskill non-stop!" Except that that can't be the case; the maximum would be 70 TP plus the regain. Still substantial, but not to the extreme that seems to be the concern of whoever came up with this decision.

And, as has been suggested, simply placing a cap on the total TP return would also be fine. 50 TP would require two additional hits to reach 100 TP even for the extremes on sam, and 3 hits for most other two-handers (never mind the one-handers and H2H users who are nowhere near the lofty heights of TP return that the two-handers are).

[Vivik]

The reason that we're adjusting the specifications for save TP is that we're working to prevent weapon skills from being executed non-stop when stacking save TP, store TP, and conserve TP. As such, there are no plans to increase the effect of Miser Roll because it would cancel out the point of the save TP adjustment. Miser Roll's save TP effect will still stack with other effects and equipment.

This is a load of crap. I have lost all confidence in this development team at this point. They obviously don't think about anything before they decide to adjust it. It's seems to me they are just throwing adjustments out there to see what the player reaction would be on fixing it because they have no clue how to fix it themselves. I mean come on you don't know how your own game mechanics work?

Gimping Misers Roll is obviously the easiest thing to do, but it's not the right thing to do. The development team is just showing us how inept they have become (or always were). Take your time and do it right the first time. Put a hard cap of 50% in for any TP gained through WS, problem solved...