Nerfing Ukko/Vsmite so lazy players can be more useful?

[Prothscar]

Don't know where to begin with that post, so not going to bother. So many things wrong though. Saying DRK should tank because of a relic WS? What the fuck

If we want to use relic weaponskills as an average, which is retarded but I'll play your game, Metatron Torment says hai2u.






Unrelated: No such thing as an OP healer btw. With DDing, you can always do better. With healing, it's not about being better, it's about being sufficient; keeping people properly healed in an efficient manner. You cannot keep someone healed passed 100% (well technically Afflatus Solace says otherwise, but meh, it's a liberty that can easily be done without and is overall useless, that's another subject however). Other jobs will either be sufficient, or insufficient. If sufficient, their other abilities would make them more desirable than WHM.

At 75 for example... RDM. Now RDMs whine about wanting it back, when back in the day they whined about having to heal too much.

[FrankReynolds]

Don't know where to begin with that post, so not going to bother. So many things wrong though. Saying DRK should tank because of a relic WS? What the fuck

If we want to use relic weaponskills as an average, which is retarded but I'll play your game, Metatron Torment says hai2u.

Saying War is OP because Empy WS What the fuck?

anyways, I was just trying to interpret his post.

Unrelated: No such thing as an OP healer btw. With DDing, you can always do better. With healing, it's not about being better, it's about being sufficient; keeping people properly healed in an efficient manner. You cannot keep someone healed passed 100% (well technically Afflatus Solace says otherwise, but meh, it's a liberty that can easily be done without and is overall useless, that's another subject however). Other jobs will either be sufficient, or insufficient. If sufficient, their other abilities would make them more desirable than WHM.

At 75 for example... RDM. Now RDMs whine about wanting it back, when back in the day they whined about having to heal too much.

Being sufficient means being able to keep a tank alive, and allow DDs to chip away at an NM. Being OP means that everyone can run in, and go ape shit, and whoever deals the most damage can tank because there is no amount of damage that the WHM can't cure through. Not that I care, but this is one of the reasons that jobs that can't beat war at damage are suffering. Not because warrior has an amazing WS, But because all the other stuff is sorta unimportant now.

[Prothscar]

Saying War is OP because Empy WS What the fuck?

anyways, I was just trying to interpret his post.

Because Empy WS is comparable to Relic. I see, I see.

Being sufficient means being able to keep a tank alive, and allow DDs to chip away at an NM. Being OP means that everyone can run in, and go ape shit, and whoever deals the most damage can tank because there is no amount of damage that the WHM can't cure through. Not that I care, but this is one of the reasons that jobs that can't beat war at damage are suffering. Not because warrior has an amazing WS, But because all the other stuff is sorta unimportant now.

That isn't WHM being OP. That's abundance of Refresh in Abyssea on top of stats being elevated well beyond god levels (thus requiring the higher tier cures in some cases, same cannot be said for outside of abyssea except for dire circumstances), and Fanatics Drinks and abundance of ethers in Voidwatch along with usually having 2-3 healers per alliance. I'd like to see a single WHM heal an entire Voidwatch Alliance if you set the condition of no temp items allowed. Your argument is severely flawed. Read again what I said, as it's all true.

[FrankReynolds]

That isn't WHM being OP. That's abundance of Refresh in Abyssea on top of stats being elevated well beyond god levels (thus requiring the higher tier cures in some cases, same cannot be said for outside of abyssea except for dire circumstances), and Fanatics Drinks and abundance of ethers in Voidwatch along with usually having 2-3 healers per alliance. I'd like to see a single WHM heal an entire Voidwatch Alliance if you set the condition of no temp items allowed. Your argument is severely flawed. Read again what I said, as it's all true.

End game events always had 2-3 healers in the past. The difference was that you needed a tank with survival skills. You couldn't just eat massive damage and cure out of it. Why would anyone try to zerg an NM with no temps or buffs? What exactly are you fighting?

[Prothscar]

if you already have the answer to that question then you already see why WHM isn't OP, you're just looking for a scapegoat. I digress, this isn't a thread about WHM.

[kingfury]

There have been some comments asking for other weapon skills to be adjusted so that they are stronger. We actually looked into this, but due to the very large differences in values we determined it would be difficult because of the way it would tie into the balance of power between jobs. (In the case that things stayed the way they are, the chances that future abilities and equipment would have lower stats or simply not be possible to add would become increasingly high.)

The principle behind the current weapon skill adjustment follows the same principles for the aims of why warrior has been adjusted (Restraint, etc.):

1. Prevent becoming overpowered
2. Establish balance between warrior and other jobs (make it easier to balance)

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I was going to toss my hands up on this topic seeing as I'm very bias on the subject being a 9yr career WAR, but the need to chime in on the matter of finding a creative solution to the "Balance between all jobs" problem is far too strong to just be quiet about. I can voice my opinion comfortably without falling victim to my bias however, so this shouldn't come off as a "Warrior's Cry" for no change to the job.

I can't speak for everyone that voiced their wishes to enhance the damage dealt by other jobs in FFXI to the point of WAR and MNK, but when I suggested "Make other weaker Weapon skills stronger", I didn't mean to just increase raw damage values across the board to match that of WARs and MNKs. I'm suggesting something that would require SOME NEW creative work and strategy from the DEVs indeed which could create a sense of balance across every job that would still give players a feeling of pride as to how they deal damage similar to how WARs feel now.

I for one was extremely proud of my Ukkon damage both in and outside of Abyssea because it gave me this feeling of "It's about damn time I was rewarded for all my skill-ups and hard work all these years!" I was happy even though I felt a little guilty that other jobs couldn't reach the same damage numbers, because I felt it was WARs natural "High-level" progression to slaughter enemies with their new found abilities and weapon skills. That's not to say that it was fair, but it did feel really natural to me. That leads us to where we are today though however, the point of how other jobs can achieve the same natural "High-level" progression with their respective weapon skills. My suggestions are as follows:

1. Don't bring Damage Dealing jobs (WAR, MNK) that excel at producing high damage backwards to meet the lackluster numbers of other jobs, because their numbers SHOULD NOT be lackluster in the 1st place. Instead...
2. Create new Job specific abilities/methods that help to "naturally" increase the weapon skill damage potential of other jobs in comparison to that of what WARs and MNKs can produce.
3. Don't encumber any of the FFXI job's ability to produce high damage AT ALL after years of skilling up their respective weapons for their jobs. Instead reward them with new found DEPTH with their weapons that enhance game play and their dedication to perfecting the way they deal damage.
4. (For example) Give a WHM the option to activate a new ability that would unlock their potential to couple their "Buffing" magic to greatly enhance their club weapon skill damage. Alternatively, they could embed their Divine magic into their weapon skills for a time that greatly enhances their potential to deal heavy damage.
5. Give every job this new type of Job specific methods of enhancing their potential to deal heavy damage so NO ONE has to be weaker. No job has to be left out of the wonderful feeling of "It's about damn time I can slaughter something!" Give every player that has worked hard for years to build their characters the reward of true and unique power for their respective jobs.

I don't believe that any job has to be powered down after 25 levels of supposed "new found power". Thanks for listening to our feedback.

[tyrantsyn]

As always King, well said and great suggestion.

[Coldbrand]

They're going to go through with this nerf whether we like it or not, the mocchi version of this post, unlike ours, has a bunch of likes.

[Tsuneo]

You guys must not check the JP dev tracker, but they changed the crit rate for both WS's. They are going to be introduced on the test server for testing at some point.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...284#post258284

[Neisan_Quetz]

According to Kincard, it seems they will scale back the crit nerf on UF in exchange for not giving War critical attack bonus III. I don't know about VS though.