More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

[FrankReynolds]

That came and went with abyssea. Short of moving those buffs outside the zone and adjusting mobs accordingly, you're stuck on the same linear rails you were before it. SE has decided to revamp old content which plays a major role in why you progress upward in a linear fashion as opposed to exponentially as in WoW. It would take quite a bit of work to adjust the game in that way and I'd assume that SE has no intention of doing it. Thus, Ukko's needed to be nerfed.

So they design a bunch of new abilities, increase your level by 24, and at the end take all the power they gave you back so that they don't have to build new content to go with it, and that makes sense?

A) The content was already slated for adjustments, but none of those adjustments included the use of atmas and other abyssea buffs.

What content are you referring to? I was unaware that you got similar buffs, or that they had even added said content yet (void watch is technically an offshoot of abyssea).

Removing war... you really think the nerf is going to hit you that hard? You'll still be at the top of the parse doing what you do best, it just won't be multitudes more than other jobs who provide the same. Balancing jobs vs jobs.

My point was that the nerf is not helpful. Even by removing warrior completely (the ultimate nerf) they don't render the content more difficult to complete (still not balancing against content), and the next strongest DD just replaces them (not balancing jobs either). The whole change is pointless and has no positives, only negatives.

In essence, nerfing warrior back down to the level of other DD is the same as bringing other DD up to warrior. The difference is that content can be left how it was intended to be.

Even if they absolutely had to nerf war, they should have worked on fixes and boosts to other jobs first.

There are only two arguments for warrior here. One is that they aren't better than everything else for survivability issues, niche SC usage, ect. and the other is that they don't get to see big numbers. Both of them are lame arguments.

There is actually a third argument: Why waste time building weapons, and meriting when its a crap shoot as to whether SE is gonna come take it away so they can save a few bucks on programming content? This game is entirely about progression. When legitimately earned progress is taken away on a whim, the game loses meaning.

I keep hearing that it's easier to balance by nerfing 1 job than by boosting a bunch of others, or changing all the content. The problem is that changing 1 job doesn't change the content or the other jobs. Besides that, this is a paid subscription service. If it was 4 of my buddies from the computer sciences department making it in a dorm room I'd be like "oh you don't have time to design that? that's cool, the games still awesome.", but its not. Its a paid service, and "that would be a lot of work" is never an excuse. I can't pull that at my job with my customers. Can you?

[Scribble]

So they design a bunch of new abilities, increase your level by 24, and at the end take all the power they gave you back so that they don't have to build new content to go with it, and that makes sense?

I don't know, I mean... I guess there are players who would be content to just keep adding abyssea areas. Did you honestly not know that eventually we'd have to leave abyssea? I guess Joachim is kinda a tease when he says that you'll get stuck if you stay in too long.

What content are you referring to?

The adjusted dynamis, nyzul, ect. Basically everything outside of abyssea that will be tuned to provide a reason for level 99 players to return. You don't get similar buffs, I was stating that to point to the fact that people aren't satisfied with anything else these days.

My point was that the nerf is not helpful.

It's not supposed to be 'helpful'. It's supposed to fix a WS that is broken and it serves that purpose.

Even if they absolutely had to nerf war, they should have worked on fixes and boosts to other jobs first.

Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.

Why waste time building weapons, and meriting when its a crap shoot as to whether SE is gonna come take it away so they can save a few bucks on programming content?

That's a question you have to answer for yourself. If you don't like the way the game is headed then you can see the door. If you're satisfied with the service then you keep paying and play.

The purpose of the game, and it is just a game, is enjoyment. If you don't enjoy collecting items for trials then I could ask you the same question; why waste the time? I really can't answer that for you, but I can say that I'm perplexed as to why you would do something you don't enjoy knowing that you really have no control over it other than not participating.

[Tsuneo]

Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.

Other jobs will suffer because they aren't getting buffed. Those jobs still suck just as much as they always have. Keep in my SAM and WAR will still be the DD's of choice, so all this nerfing will be for nothing.

[Dart]

I don't understand why people are putting sam in the same group as war, it's a clear #2 but it still isn't close to war. Even with the "nerf" sam still gets crushed for the only real content worth measuring. Voidwatch.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know, I mean... I guess there are players who would be content to just keep adding abyssea areas. Did you honestly not know that eventually we'd have to leave abyssea? I guess Joachim is kinda a tease when he says that you'll get stuck if you stay in too long.

I don't know why your referencing Abyssea here. Why would they have to make everything for 99 players happen in abyssea?

The adjusted dynamis, nyzul, ect. Basically everything outside of abyssea that will be tuned to provide a reason for level 99 players to return. You don't get similar buffs, I was stating that to point to the fact that people aren't satisfied with anything else these days.

I don't see how why that would have anything to do with nerfing 1-2 jobs.

It's not supposed to be 'helpful'. It's supposed to fix a WS that is broken and it serves that purpose.

How is it broken? What can you only beat if you bring an ukko war to the event? Is the something that ukko is making possible that isn't gonna be possible post nerf, besides wars putting up impressive numbers?

Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.

That's just it. If they are nerfing it to balance content, they have failed. If they are nerfing it to balance jobs, that means they are going to have to nerf a whole bunch of other jobs too. Just doing this to a couple of WS / abilities, doesn't really do anything. That means that either they did it for no reason, or there are a lot more bullshit changes coming. Either way, it's pretty screwed for the people owning / building those weapons.

That's a question you have to answer for yourself. If you don't like the way the game is headed then you can see the door. If you're satisfied with the service then you keep paying and play.

And that's the attitude that got us to where we are. "If you don't like it then don't pay for it, because we don't care what you think" is a poor business model.

The purpose of the game, and it is just a game, is enjoyment. If you don't enjoy collecting items for trials then I could ask you the same question; why waste the time? I really can't answer that for you, but I can say that I'm perplexed as to why you would do something you don't enjoy knowing that you really have no control over it other than not participating.

I'm perplexed as to why you would want to have no control over it. Why do you want them to come take the things you work for in this game? I think your point of view is far more perplexing than mine.

[Scribble]

Ukko's is broken(mentioned pages ago) because of the modifier. A quick glance at the upcoming 'nerf' should have made that clear, but if you missed it 80% crit is ridiculous. Now that we got that out of the way, again...

When a WS is broken you make adjustments to that WS, not to the content. SE did fail, but the failure was not realizing how stupid such a high modifier would be on a high damage weapon considering how quickly people can fire off at 300 TP these days(stay tuned corsairs). If they had put everyone on godmode empyreans and the encounters were the same then you'd have a point.

The 'Don't like it, don't pay' business model has been working since dirt. The silly thing about all this is you keep saying that something is being taken away from you like warrior won't still be top DD. At worst you won't be able to post youtube videos or pics of big numbers, but you will still remain at the top of the parse, you will still be able to do your job and you will still be in high demand.

Why so sad?

[FrankReynolds]

Ukko's is broken(mentioned pages ago) because of the modifier. A quick glance at the upcoming 'nerf' should have made that clear, but if you missed it 80% crit is ridiculous. Now that we got that out of the way, again...

We didn't really get anything out of the way. All we have determined is that you think its too strong. Broken is when it has an unintentional effect. The weapon skilled is behaving exactly how they planned it, tested it, and allowed it to behave for months. They just decided to make it weaker.

When a WS is broken you make adjustments to that WS, not to the content. SE did fail, but the failure was not realizing how stupid such a high modifier would be on a high damage weapon considering how quickly people can fire off at 300 TP these days(stay tuned corsairs). If they had put everyone on godmode empyreans and the encounters were the same then you'd have a point.

They are revamping every major event for the most part. They just finished raising our levels. see the time line? First we get powerful weapons, then they add content for that. Not the other way around. We already had the weapons. The new content still hasn't even been finished.

The 'Don't like it, don't pay' business model has been working since like dirt.

FFXIV would beg to differ.

The silly thing about all this is you keep saying that something is being taken away from you like warrior won't still be top DD.

Your missing the bigger picture. They are nerfing it because fixing (insert w/e job it is you think is gaining from this <here>) is more work. This is actually a nerf to the game. Not war or monk.

At worst you won't be able to post youtube videos or pics of big numbers, but you will still remain at the top of the parse, you will still be able to do your job and you will still be in high demand.

Why so sad?

I'm sad, because I was hoping for some new fights that were different from ones in the past, and some new more powerful magic / weapon skills / abilities, that would be needed to defeat new more powerful enemies. But instead, they are just going to tune us down so that the old stuff isn't too easy.

I still don't understand your desire to rationalize this. What has a warrior or monk with a high WS number ever done to affect your life in a negative way?

[Scribble]

The WS is overpowered. Period.

FFXIV actually proves my point. People got a shitty game and decided to voice their opinions by not playing. That was actually the reason these forums exist. Shortly after dumping Tanaka and apologizing profusely, SE decided an official forum to make players feel like their opinions would be taken into account. Instead, ignorant asshats think that SE owes them something and/or have decided they can do a better job designing the game.

For the final fucking time, they are not adjusting the WS because of some other job feeling inferior.

I wanted some better content too, but whether or not we get it remains to be seen. I don't have anything at all personal against either or any of the jobs in XI. I just don't think making an obvious adjustment qualifies as a cop out for adjusting content. It should be obvious to the oblivious.

[FrankReynolds]

The WS is overpowered. Period.

..... the WS isn't overpowered. Period. You have yet to describe any benefits to the damage to being lowered other than making it fit into your comfort zone for weapon skill power.

FFXIV actually proves my point. People got a shitty game and decided to voice their opinions by not playing. That was actually the reason these forums exist. Shortly after dumping Tanaka and apologizing profusely, SE decided an official forum to make players feel like their opinions would be taken into account. Instead, ignorant asshats think that SE owes them something and/or have decided they can do a better job designing the game.

Ermmm I think you better re-read what you just wrote there. How does a game failing due to lack of response to player input, and an official forum being created to rectify the problem, demonstrate the value of ignoring player opinion? And FYI: I Pay them. They do owe me something. If you disagree with this theory, feel free to send me all your cash. I promise to do nothing for you.

For the final fucking time, they are not adjusting the WS because of some other job feeling inferior.

I think I already stated 20-30 times that it will do nothing for any other job. Now that we cleared that up, please explain who it will help.

I wanted some better content too, but whether or not we get it remains to be seen. I don't have anything at all personal against either or any of the jobs in XI. I just don't think making an obvious adjustment qualifies as a cop out for adjusting content. It should be obvious to the oblivious.

Obvious would be concentrating on the 1,000+ threads on this site alone about game imbalance problems completely unrelated to the jobs currently in question. While I'm sure some will agree that the WS is overpowered, I highly doubt anyone was thinking that nerfing Ukko's and V smite was going to fix anything in the game, other than a couple of peoples egos.

[Saiken253]

I think this might help clear up some of the argument... a point in nerfing Ukko is to make more DDs become less unappealing (because their damage will be less overshadowed by WAR) allowing people to play a job that they enjoy, instead of bringing a job that can be played by facerolling and do massive damage.

However, I do agree that this is not the way that SE should be handling this. Yes instead they should be working on improving/correcting/release from beta(looking at smn) and not nerf; but SE is lazy and they want to kill their game and their reputation as a gaming company so that they don't have to listen to all the unhappy consumers(at least that's the message that I'm getting haha~. ff13, 14 and such contribute to this!).

Back on track, they only need to do a few simple fixes to the battle system tbh. Improve fTP values of the underpowered DDs and remove atk penalties. And for those that still love abyssea(though this makes complete sense in my mind) just make everything crit. Magic crits already, why can't all WSs crit normally now =\. Just a few ideas that I'm simply reiterating; they're all over the forums, but SE probably finds them overpowered/foolish/too much work/<insert reason here>.