Wheres the evidence Abyssea revived FFXI?

[Runespider]

Apparently you do, so tell me. How widespread have bots been? Because I only remember them being used for HNM, fishing and HELM. And they're still used for the latter two, or at least fishing, because HELM is hardly worth it anymore. And the first part never bothered 99% of the FFXI population, because they weren't doing HNM. I'd say the average Joe didn't notice much in terms of botting improvement on FFXI. Hell, the average Joe thinks Windower is a bot.

Old FFXI, HNM (claim bots, spawn notification LS bots, scan bots/flee bots to know when DI/SW popped, in which zone and get to it first), Salvage (flee bots, stuff to see which mobs dropped which cells), fishing (this was the best form of making gil in the game, while asleep or at work on multiple mules). The main thing with bots/apps was that Square showed they were unable to counter them and botters were winning big time (on claim or go home content), they used to be seen as cheating but since they became "you're a dumbass wasting hours at HNM and not botting" their use became common practice and acceptance followed. When content encourages cheating and changes the mindset of the endgame community you know something is wrong with the content.

The only thing people do now is use cure bots in XP alliances and use flee bots to outrun TP moves etc, fish botting isn't a big deal anymore because gil is easy to make. So yeah cheating has pretty much been destroyed where it used to be very important and a major part of the game, if you were a good botter you could get into any endgame LS and get gear ahead of pretty much anyone (didn't have to be a good player, just good with 3rd party apps).

[Arcon]

Old FFXI, HNM (claim bots, spawn notification LS bots, scan bots/flee bots to know when DI/SW popped, in which zone and get to it first), Salvage (flee bots, stuff to see which mobs dropped which cells), fishing (this was the best form of making gil in the game, while asleep or at work on multiple mules).

Flee bots in Salvage? I guess, if you needed it. I've heard of plenty of bots and been in many different Salvage groups, both endgame and noob parties, and have never seen one myself. But true, fleebots were there, technically (as they are now, worse than ever before).

"Stuff to see which mob dropped which cells"? They were called charts. You could make them on paper.

So yeah, all you said was confirmed what I said. Bots were used for HNMs, fishing and fleehacks. Fishing is still around, so are fleehacks/poshacks, according to player reports worse than ever. So effectively, it only eliminated bots from HNMs, and it did that by eliminating HNMs. And even that only affected a very minor part of the population. In fact, I'd like to say that, while minor in its effect, the Guku/Tunga claimwars affected more people than HNM ever did.

When content encourages cheating and changes the mindset of the endgame community you know something is wrong with the content.

While that depends on your definition of content, it's still a retarded approach. So just for a second think about someone who enjoys HNMs. Are you saying that he won't, ever, be able to enjoy that in any game, ever? That's "wrong" content and he shouldn't be wanting it? It may be a bit much to ask, but I'd rather improve anti-botting mechanisms (it is possible) than purge said content from the game entirely.

The only thing people do now is use cure bots in XP alliances and use flee bots to outrun TP moves etc, fish botting isn't a big deal anymore because gil is easy to make. So yeah cheating has pretty much been destroyed where it used to be very important and a major part of the game, if you were a good botter you could get into any endgame LS and get gear ahead of pretty much anyone (didn't have to be a good player, just good with 3rd party apps).

Fish botting is present wherever you look these days. Your argument is retarded. "Gil is easy to make so no one will bot anymore" get out. Gil is easier to make with bots. Why waste your time making gil when bots can do it for you overnight?

Curing in EXP alliances? Flee to evade TP moves? So you're saying that right now there's bots being used in content that's done by absolutely everyone? Yet, for some mysterious reason, you call cheating "destroyed", compared to before when it was a "major part of the game", a part that was hardly done by anyone in the first place? In what universe does that make sense?

[Alkimi]

What the hell does that have to do with endgame as it used to be back at 75 cap?

I'm with Flion, I'm EU aswell and being EU and trying to do endgame successfully pre-abyssea was hard. Your average EU shell couldn't kill squat, which is why I never got to do Einherjar until late 2009 when I joined an endgame shell that actually tried to do events at a time that their EU members could attend. But those shells were few and far between, at least the successful ones.

As one of those few and far between EU shells we only camped HNM when they fell in our time zone and our linkshell was more aimed at event based content like Einherjar/Dynamis/Sky/Sea. We did get claims despite not using bots and killed far quicker than the trash shells that were around at the time, however we eventually quit the whole HNM scene about 6 months before the 80 cap.

We're probably one of the very few big linkshells that wasn't destroyed by abyssea but it was a struggle organizing an alliance for events that were more catered to lowman groups. Eventually around 8 months ago we took the decision to stop abyssea as a linkshell event and concentrate on content that was more suited to our size.

[Runespider]

Your post is just arguing for the sake of arguing, as per usual.

"Stuff to see which mob dropped which cells"? They were called charts. You could make them on paper.

Did you ever do salvage or what? In some areas there were 4 mobs, 2 of which dropped cells and 2 which dropped nothing (time wasters) people downloaded stuff to know which did and which did not drop anything so they would only kill those. The flee hacks were also quite widely used by the "port up" players and used more widely by the successfull groups in statics.

Regardless the truth is that for endgamers botting was a major issue and source of much anger before Abyssea and now it's not. Abyssea ushered in the total change to the entire game and one of those was the removal of cheating as the major issue, yet another thing it's awesome for.

Except have you actually fought those NMs? Without temps the fights turn into death fests. The top tier NM's can basically one shot everyone near them at any point in time, making getting procs impossible without fanatics of fools. Without procs what little chance of loot you do have is going down the drain fast. Go take a long look at those NMs, some can cause weakness, you know the effect that happens when you die, just by hitting you. Some can aoe weakness, aoe death, or just spam death / cheap moves. Pil's flanking movement hits for 1.5 ~ 2.5K which is more HP then your DD's will have. He can put up a barrier that will negate all damage until you proc a weakness, but you can't proc those weakness's because your hitting for 0 and every few seconds all your DD's are killed. And he's one of the easier ones. Some have hate reset, or worse rapid enmity decay which makes them often walk around just one shoting everyone.

If SE made the fights realistic then temps wouldn't be needed, but as is you use them or you die.

Yeah I was more agreeing with the that the event itself was good but ruined by bad loot systems. The harder fights are almost impossible without using temps/staggers (in the time limit with how much hp they have), people will run out of MP and the DD will get one shotted..they upscaled the damage from AoE etc due to temps.

[wish12oz]

You want proof? Your silly post got 4 likes. Any post about Tanaka or how bad VW drop rates suck or how it's a dick move to nerf a WS after a year of people obtaining a weapon to use it get 20 to 50. Or go look at the JP forums. Close to 200 likes on angry posts about nerfs and crappy WSs and crappy VW drop rates. These forums are a cross section of the games population and the majority opinion here can be assumed to be that of the rest of the population.

This was such a good statement.

[Tamoa]

As one of those few and far between EU shells we only camped HNM when they fell in our time zone and our linkshell was more aimed at event based content like Einherjar/Dynamis/Sky/Sea. We did get claims despite not using bots and killed far quicker than the trash shells that were around at the time, however we eventually quit the whole HNM scene about 6 months before the 80 cap.

We're probably one of the very few big linkshells that wasn't destroyed by abyssea but it was a struggle organizing an alliance for events that were more catered to lowman groups. Eventually around 8 months ago we took the decision to stop abyssea as a linkshell event and concentrate on content that was more suited to our size.

Yeah your ls is one of the few and far between ones that's EU and that's been successful. My original server was Alexander and there were no EU endgame shells there, at least none that were remotely successful. There were EU dynamis linkshells, and EU limbus linkshells, but no proper all-in-one EU shells.

So I ended up in a mainly NA hnmls, which did dynamis and other events (successfully) while I was asleep. I tried to stick around in my dynamis shell, but it wasn't always easy.

[Arcon]

Did you ever do salvage or what? In some areas there were 4 mobs, 2 of which dropped cells and 2 which dropped nothing (time wasters) people downloaded stuff to know which did and which did not drop anything so they would only kill those. The flee hacks were also quite widely used by the "port up" players and used more widely by the successfull groups in statics.

The only way to know if that was possible would be if the drop pools are ID based. I actually don't know if that was the case, if it was then yes, cheating would be helpful in Salvage too. Although there's a major difference, which I'll get to in the next paragraph.

Regardless the truth is that for endgamers botting was a major issue and source of much anger before Abyssea and now it's not. Abyssea ushered in the total change to the entire game and one of those was the removal of cheating as the major issue, yet another thing it's awesome for.

That's what I meant before, stating your opinion as a truth. That's your opinion of someone who's been in a HNMLS. But guess what, even if people botted Salvage, that's an entirely different animal than claimbotting HNM. Botting in the HNM setting was competitive, meaning that if one person was botting, other people were at an disadvantage. The same goes for HELM. In Salvage, or any other part of FFXI really, the setting is cooperative instead of competitive. Meaning if someone cheats for an advantage, it benefits the entire group. I seriously doubt that if anyone was botting in a Salvage group that their party members minded very much for less kills and easier wins. It doesn't make it better, but I find your claim that it caused "much anger" pretty groundless. That's like people in Salvage dupe groups grieving about the abundance of drops.

Let me break down your claims. I'll leave fleehacks/fishing out, since that's applicable now as well.

Before Abyssea, botting was used for:
- HNMs (competitive)
- Salvage (cooperative)

Now:
- EXP parties/alliances (cooperative)
- Voidwatch fights (cooperative)

So now it's better because it's still all around, but it's helping people? Aside from the fact that HNMs were not common content and it affected very few people, and in all my Salvage runs I've never seen anyone botting (or have a need for it, for that matter). The only kind of botting Abyssea abolished was the HNM claimbotting one, and again, it didn't "fix" it per se, it just abolished HNM altogether. I agree that it's better in the sense that it eliminated competition, I still don't agree by how they did it. By that reasoning you could just remove every content that people have an issue with (which would be pretty much every content).

[scaevola]

No idea what evidence means. Also, no idea what fun means.

lollin

i had fun in abyssea. everyone i know had fun in abyssea. we do not need more compelling evidence than this.

the OP is overthinking something that cannot be overthought, realizes he is doing it, and is seeking to draw people who like abyssea (because they had fun in it, you see) into confirming his opinions rather than accept the error lies with him and his perception of how best to approach a leisure activity from which nothing can really be gained

for the record, i recognized the sucker's bet of HNMs for what they were and never took part. 5% haste from byakko's haidate could never be worth dealing with the stunted, hateful people along the way to getting them. i went to salvage like twice, climbed Nyzul for a bit and did some assaults, but i am proud to say when synthetic atmas came out the only ones available to me were Banisher and whatever the one for Bastok Rank 10 was. i played ffxi to kick back, relax, make some money and maybe level some jobs, and generally waste time and listen to audiobooks; when i actually felt like pushing myself in a video game i chose to waste my time in games that actually rewarded me for being able to play them well (season 3 duelist in BG7, baby) rather than those that might reward me for dedication rather than skill

[Benihana]

My post wasn't intended to attack, and I don't appreciate being attacked. I personally think this boards perception of things is borderline "delusional". Am I saying someone everyone is wrong and i'm so right? No, but the fact is, the ffxi playerbase is higher than it was a few months ago. Care to explain that then? I don't see mass quitting over the magian trials. If they add new hnm, i don't see mass quitting either. If they add new salvage or einherjar, I still don't see mass quitting.

There is too much casual and solo content for people to really care with things that might be time consuming. The game has changed. FFXI back in the day.. everything was a grind.. Now there is so much more variety of casual content. (I said casual content, not content in general....).

All Im saying is, those of you who think that SE making more endgame events ala 2005 or a traditional sense would result in mass quitting, I think that's BS. It's been 2-3 updates with this kinda direction and I still see ALL the same people on here. I mean, if you've disliked the game so much... why are you still playing? I can talk because I actually left during the transition period. I don't want this to become an attack thread.

I don't even pay Runespider/Ravemore/Sparthos attention anymore because ALL their posts are the same and it's been months of it. I don't mean to be mean, but you obviously enjoy something about the game TBH.

I'm one of the people who doesn't care about a trial i'm not gonna do, and i'm one of those people who agrees with the ukko/vs nerf. Do I think other stuff needs to be nerfed as well? Of course. It makes no sense to leave sam and ochain pld with their overpowered stuff but shoha has only been out very short time and you can be sure nerfs are going to come around for the other overpowered stuff after 76+.

Abyssea was more than likely intended to be used as filler content. A lot of stuff has been overlooked and or intended to keep us preoccupied until we are recapped. It's too early to tell what the new endgame will be like. SE has been nerfing and adjusting since the game came out, duh.

We are only just getting recapped, chill out and let them re-adjust the game. If you thought Abyssea was that re-adjustment.. Well, theres PLENTY OF IT still around, but way too early to predict or tell what endgame will be like. Theyre doing toau revamp, surely theyll be doing something with notorious monsters soon. Either adding mass amounts of new ones for force and free. New znms etc.

In short, I think people are overeacting. We just got re-capped. Sheesh. All this over a trial that isn't in game yet and a nerf that was long deserved. VW fights are fun, and yeah i dont understand the loot system but with all the complaining about the ls leaders being stingy etc, I mean, we have to take small victories where we can get them. We don't know why SE won't add a loot or point system and it could be for a variety of reasons, not because they just wanna make it SO HARD for us.

[scaevola]

write 700 words about how abyssea killed the game etc

read one-liners from others about how that is a dumb opinion and you are dumb for having it

write another 300 words about how everybody is totally overreacting