It's time Summoner got Bahamut.

[JagerForrester]

... they should make it a 2hr smn and his attack would have a 50/50 chance of either killing all enemies infront for you or your whole party for making him come out.

/laughs and slaps Secondplanet on the back.
Too funny!

[Silvers]

Odin's 2hour is a Final Fantasy favorites as well as godly. I'm surprised Alexander didn't become a normal avatar with Holy Judgment. But they built him as the immobile guardian in this game, hence why Perfect Defense was given and to deviate from his inability to walk with us.

We should be thankful we got these 2 at all.

Immobile.... you can't say that. SE didn't event stick to that stample when they designed the fight to make a pact with Alex.then You could say then same about the other celestial avatars being immoble in the crystals, yet they move. I still wonder why they took the route they did with Odin and Alex. If you can only use them while Astral Flow is active, why cut there use to only a brief moment? Why didn't they allow SMN full use of one of them for the full duration of AF? Example: SMN sets up shop and summon Alex, Alex uses Perfect Defense (Grand Opening), bashes on mob/NM until AF wears, is released, or HP hits zero and Alex uses Divine Judgement then leaves (Grand Closing). But we are stuck with how things are now.

[Secondplanet]

I think overall smn's should get any other summons, instead i think they should "evolve" our current ones, either through a merit or a quest to have like titan 2.0 where he has like a huge shield for a arm and new blood pacts but you have to summon titan and choose a pet ability then they go inside their repective crystal and after a "casting" time come out as their more powerful form at a higher mp cost or same MP cost but can only choose 1 or 2 of your avatars to do this to. I just think the original 6 are over looked even fenrir and diablos are overlooked recently.

[JagerForrester]

Immobile.... you can't say that. SE didn't event stick to that stample when they designed the fight to make a pact with Alex.then You could say then same about the other celestial avatars being immoble in the crystals, yet they move. I still wonder why they took the route they did with Odin and Alex. If you can only use them while Astral Flow is active, why cut there use to only a brief moment? Why didn't they allow SMN full use of one of them for the full duration of AF? Example: SMN sets up shop and summon Alex, Alex uses Perfect Defense (Grand Opening), bashes on mob/NM until AF wears, is released, or HP hits zero and Alex uses Divine Judgement then leaves (Grand Closing). But we are stuck with how things are now.

Unfortunately, I haven't fought Alex for the pact yet (returned from a 2yr break and all). I did check a video, and I saw he is a mobile object. I'll take back my statement. But I'm sure you've done a Trial fight. The opening cutscene presents the avatar coming out of slumber to take on the challengers that entered the realm.

I like your idea of Alex getting Holy Judgment as a "Grand Closing" move. But there are some flaws. For one, you're talking 3 minutes flat for Perfect Defense. Nothing that strong is going to last that long. At least with the two dismissing themselves, you can 'fresh up and summon another avatar for another 2hour if you desire. Two, if Alex was set up with 2 moves, how would Odin be set up? I can't think of an opening move Odin would do that's fair and effective. Paralyzga? Gagnrath? Yggr? And three, Perfect Defense and Holy Judgment are 2 powerful moves. Other avatars in FFXI only have one 2hour move, he's special, but not that special.

[Pebe]

Returning to the topic of Phoenix, I think he could be either a 2hr ability or a summon and be beastly either way.

2hr ability only: Rebirth Flame - Summons PHoenix dealing extreme Fire (and Light?) based damage to the enemy. All players, regardless of alliance or parties, within 30 yalms receives the effect of Arise (Raise without weakness).

If his ability was like this, I wouldn't find him as only a 2hr. This would pretty much save an entire linkshell from a wipe.

Edit: Oh hey, there is a phoenix thread dedicated to the topic... woops my bad.

[Silvers]

Unfortunately, I haven't fought Alex for the pact yet (returned from a 2yr break and all). I did check a video, and I saw he is a mobile object. I'll take back my statement. But I'm sure you've done a Trial fight. The opening cutscene presents the avatar coming out of slumber to take on the challengers that entered the realm.

I like your idea of Alex getting Holy Judgment as a "Grand Closing" move. But there are some flaws. For one, you're talking 3 minutes flat for Perfect Defense. Nothing that strong is going to last that long. At least with the two dismissing themselves, you can 'fresh up and summon another avatar for another 2hour if you desire. Two, if Alex was set up with 2 moves, how would Odin be set up? I can't think of an opening move Odin would do that's fair and effective. Paralyzga? Gagnrath? Yggr? And three, Perfect Defense and Holy Judgment are 2 powerful moves. Other avatars in FFXI only have one 2hour move, he's special, but not that special.

Didn't say or sugguest a change to Perfect Defense. From a BP stand point with if you cap -BP with gear (-15) you can fire off 4 2HR abilities (not counting Odin, and Alex unless you use them last). I know a number of people the brought up the idea of reevaluating 2HR abilities for leveling 60~70+, do to the strength of most of the Lv70 BPs. It wouldn't be too much to see Alex and Odin using strong 2BPs per summon with in 3min of AF.

As for the Trials you only wake them breifly. When they fully awaken, they shatter the crystal like the one that was in Pso'Xja. FFXI design and story make it seem like SMN call on astral projections of the gods.

[Imakun]

IIRC if the Celestial Avatar were to truly awaken from their slumber they'll just nuke us to death.
That's why our summons are called Avatars, they're just a shadow of the sleeping gods. A "fragment of their power" as they call it.

[Strife]

@JagerForrester
Unfortunately AF is cancelled as soon as either Odin or Alexander use their BP.

[Kaych]

I was thinking that a way we could make Bahamut summonable and still have it "Powerful" like SE wants it to be, is maybe to make it only summonable when you have 3-6 Summoners, then use it as a 2hr.

I got the idea from the Black Mages "Meteor". When you see the Tarutarus in the opening movie, they are lined up and cast Meteor. It looks sorta like a "group-magic". I was thinking that Bahamut should be like that. That way, it keeps its "powerful-ness", makes it harder to use and keeps it "unique-ness". This way you can make it more powerful, the more Summoners you have.

[Soundwave]

Yes please to Bahamut, can't really keep his powerful image anymore...when a group can just Kclub it, but don't even need to do that anymore.

So whats stopping ya SE?!