Warrior and Great Swords

[Byrth]

5 fTP(+DA), 100% STR mod, non-crit, Attack-33%, GS base damage
3 fTP(+DA), 60% STR mod, Crit Rate+~35%, GAxe base damage

I guess you should probably just get Ukonvasara.

[Shirkan]

Hi there

I was watching the new Weapon skills that gonna be added in december update, they looks really cool and seems to be powerfull also.
In particular the new Great Sword WS "Resolution": 5hit dmg varies with tp with a Str modifier.
Unfortunately looking at warrior's great swords i can't see any good weapon, apart Ragnarok obviously (but that's worth the 120-150M ?).
My point is : could SE make Caladbolg WAR/PLD/DRK like relic GS instead PLD/DRK only?

Seriously Great Swords are sooper kool right? And just to remind the trolls, we are playing a computer game and we do like to have fun.Ragnarok is cool because it appeared in most if not all Final Fantasy series games.Scourge is also a pretty wonderful looking WS but it's modifiers are horrible, MND and CHR o0,
But what I think you were saying Kirah is that if Warrior COULD use Cala, they would have access to both Torcleaver and the new WS Resolution.Hmm I would make Cala then.
If I decided to make Rag just to play with a new WS, to be honest I'd make Apoc for my DRK instead!
Warrior with GS just will just not have the same DMG output as a Warrior with a GA.We have a new WS coming out for our job class, focus your gear on it's modifiers, be prepared!

[Arcon]

No, you'd swing 3.5% faster, on average.

How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Because it looks wrong and like complete made up crap to me.

Actually, I'm not sure myself. Now I'm getting 3.75% as a result. Must have been an error in my math. It was after midnight! Can you blame me?

WAR can get 78.75% Haste, DRK can get 80% (with Last Resort up), otherwise only 78.75% as well. 80% Haste over 78.75% Haste gets 21.25/20 = 6.25% more swings. Since Last Resort can be up 60% of the time, it's 0.6*1.0625 + 0.4*1.0 = 1.0375, meaning overall 3.75% more swings.

[wish12oz]

Actually, I'm not sure myself. Now I'm getting 3.75% as a result. Must have been an error in my math. It was after midnight! Can you blame me?

WAR can get 78.75% Haste, DRK can get 80% (with Last Resort up), otherwise only 78.75% as well. 80% Haste over 78.75% Haste gets 21.25/20 = 6.25% more swings. Since Last Resort can be up 60% of the time, it's 0.6*1.0625 + 0.4*1.0 = 1.0375, meaning overall 3.75% more swings.

.........................Seriously?
If you're going to say you have a BRD with march+4 to double march you, why don't you just say he has a level 99 Ghorn and can get march+5 and cap the WAR's haste? Or you could not be an idiot and compare what actually happens most of the time, which is no bard, and DRK gaining 15% haste 3 minutes of every 5.

[Arcon]

.........................Seriously?
If you're going to say you have a BRD with march+4 to double march you, why don't you just say he has a level 99 Ghorn and can get march+5 and cap the WAR's haste? Or you could not be an idiot and compare what actually happens most of the time, which is no bard, and DRK gaining 15% haste 3 minutes of every 5.

First of all, WAR can't cap Haste.

Secondly, ok, let's assume no BRD. But then, let's also include Double Attack. For 3 out of 5 minutes, DRK gets 15% Haste. 25% from equipment, 15% from spell and 10% from Hasso means 65%. WAR has 50%. That's a 25.7% increase in swings from delay reduction, compared to WAR. DRK has 10% Double Attack in their TP set (assuming Pole Grip, no idea what DRKs would otherwise use, but if it's something else, the numbers are just worse for DRK). WAR has 17% native Double Attack, the same 10% that DRK has, 5% from legs +2, 1% from earring (and optionally 3% from gorget). That makes DRK gets 10% extra attacks, while WAR gets 33% extra attacks. That's 1.257*1.1 = 1.383 for DRK and 1.0*1.33 = 1.330 for WAR. Meaning DRK has 1.383/1.330 ~= 1.04 the amount of swings a WAR does, so 4% more swings.

Thirdly, what situation are you comparing these jobs on? Anything inside old content, it doesn't matter anyway. Anything inside Abyssea, same deal. Which leaves VW, for which you pretty much always have a BRD.

And finally, I was just giving a best-case comparison. Best case equals maxed Haste. And a BRD doesn't even have to have +4 or +3 instruments, even with +2 instrument (and even naked), it will push them close to cap. And any scenario that gets close to cap, the extra Haste from Desperate Blows will go to waste. Sure, there's some situations where this is actually very useful, for example if a BRD decides to only put one Haste song on you (for whatever reason). Then DRK will get the full Desperate Blows profits, meleeing at 80% Haste while WAR remains at 65% Haste, which means the DRK will swing 75% faster. You can always twist numbers around to make one case favor another (for that matter we could assume no magical Haste, which would actually make WAR have more swings than DRK too). But that wasn't my point. I was just pointing out that the remark "swinging the weapon much, much faster than WAR" was groundless, because in most cases it would be hardly noticeable or even the opposite.

[wish12oz]

First of all, WAR can't cap Haste.

25% gear, 10% hasso, 15% spell is 50%.
March+5 is 144/1024 and 176/1024, or roughly 14% and 17% haste.
This would actually put you at almost 82% haste, which is OVER the cap, and doesn't require haste samba. With only a bard as support to haste and march you, you can reach the cap. (G horn at lvl 99 is +4 all songs, BRD AF3+2 gloves are March+1) And since you assumed you'd have a BRD with march+4 anyway, whats the harm in assuming they'd bother to finish their G horn trials to 99.

DRK has 10% Double Attack in their TP set

AF3+2 head, Pole grip, Atheling mantle, Brutal earring, and Calcemec trousers are pretty standard. You could also go for the quadruple attack necklace from Hahava, since it's the best thing you could TP in, and things like jingang boots over haste shoes if getting a bunch of march, or valk breastplate with 3% triple attack.... etc, etc, etc.

Anyway, I got tired of your inaccurate statements and needing to correct you and quit reading/caring what you have to say, since it's obvious from your first couple sentences in both your posts, you don't know whats going on.

[Arcon]

25% gear, 10% hasso, 15% spell is 50%.
March+5 is 144/1024 and 176/1024, or roughly 14% and 17% haste.
This would actually put you at almost 82% haste, which is OVER the cap, and doesn't require haste samba. With only a bard as support to haste and march you, you can reach the cap. (G horn at lvl 99 is +4 all songs, BRD AF3+2 gloves are March+1) And since you assumed you'd have a BRD with march+4 anyway, whats the harm in assuming they'd bother to finish their G horn trials to 99.

Magical Haste caps at 43.75%, which means 0.4375+0.25+0.1 = 0.7875, no matter if you have March+2 or March+365.

AF3+2 head, Pole grip, Atheling mantle, Brutal earring, and Calcemec trousers are pretty standard. You could also go for the quadruple attack necklace from Hahava, since it's the best thing you could TP in, and things like jingang boots over haste shoes if getting a bunch of march, or valk breastplate with 3% triple attack.... etc, etc, etc.

I wouldn't call Calmecac Trousers standard, but ok, so add another 5%. Doesn't change the results much either way. And sure, you can switch out other items if you have different gear sets for Last Resort + Haste + 2x March than normal. See here:

You can always twist numbers around to make one case favor another (for that matter we could assume no magical Haste, which would actually make WAR have more swings than DRK too).

Anyway, I got tired of your inaccurate statements and needing to correct you and quit reading/caring what you have to say, since it's obvious from your first couple sentences in both your posts, you don't know whats going on.

Sure kiddo, keep telling yourself that. Put on your cardboard crown and have a cookie, and look down on your minions and pretend you're king of logic mountain. Meanwhile, I'll leave Saiken (whom I was originally responding to) and the rest of the readers with my actual statement:

I was just pointing out that the remark "swinging the weapon much, much faster than WAR" was groundless, because in most cases it would be hardly noticeable or even the opposite.

[Rohelius]

I think it's funny how many people argue with "it's not necessary", because that's the pinnacle of retarded arguments on here. If this game only had what's necessary, you could delete 95% of it instantly. Only leave a few zones and items, and only let jobs handle their primary weapons. Why should anyone care for WAR AF1, when it's so useless? So why is it still in the game, considering it's even shitty when you ding into it? It makes no sense for it to exist, so SE should remove it. And remove Garrison while at it, because it's not necessary either. Remove all quests from the game, since no one does them anyway, and remove hundreds of low level items that no one ever uses, along with their synthing materials, yadda yadda yadda. Hell, it's not even "necessary" to do things people are still doing. Why did they add PLD to Caladbolg, when they can DD better with Almace+Ochain? Why did they add mages to melee staves, or why are there melee staves in the first place, who melees with one? This could go on for days.

None of this is about what's necessary, and if you argue that you're completely missing the point. I named why it would make sense that WAR is one there:
- WAR has always been able to use Subduer-type greats words, which is what Caladbolg is (or at least looks like, which is the only way to distinguish him)
- WAR is on almost every other great sword in the game as well, only faussar-types are the exception
- WAR has higher great sword skill than PLD

So, what's the reasons against WAR using it? There's only one I can think of ("it's not necessary" and "it's dumb" aren't reasons), and it's that WAR didn't get two weapon skills that PLD and DRK did get, Sickle Moon and Spinning Slash. However, that doesn't explain how WAR wound up on Ragnarok, but was excluded from this. It's just not consistant. And this (in)consistancy is what bothers me, it makes my OCD act up.

Having said that, I completely agree with people. It isn't necessary, and I wouldn't use it ever. Doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

War is on Ragnarok because of the weapons Critical Hits aftermath which is a WAR 2hr.. kinda makes sense dunno why your OCD didn't make you think of that.

Wanna talk about skill? DRK has higher Elemental Skill then RDM yet no MAB. Apparently skill is irrelevant.

What people are trying to say is that the Dev team shouldn't waste a single second on modifying a Empyrian just because warrior wants a new toy.
Your saying "Oh but we only want to be on it we don't care about the WS on Cala" well like i said before Devs shouldn't waste a single second on changing those things for a job that already has tons of other uses.

And the best reason for not steering WAR towards Great Sword? SE does not want you to use them as much as your Great Axe because you hurt their feelings by dual wielding tiny axes for years.

So your affirmations while true they are meaningless because they are random facts about other random things and not a real reason to do anything about a non-issue.

[Arcon]

War is on Ragnarok because of the weapons Critical Hits aftermath which is a WAR 2hr.. kinda makes sense dunno why your OCD didn't make you think of that.

Well let's see... maybe because my OCD isn't part of my reasoning? Or because it doesn't actually make any sense at all, because Mighty Strikes will make the Aftermath completely useless? Or because if the Aftermath was related to the jobs that can use them, PLD and DRK wouldn't be there (and many other relic weapons wouldn't make sense at all)?

Wanna talk about skill? DRK has higher Elemental Skill then RDM yet no MAB. Apparently skill is irrelevant.

That's called a wrong generalization (among other wrong things). You take an example (DRK's Elemental Skill) and extrapolate from there that it should extend towards other skill-related things. Even disregarding the fact that they're both in different categories (magic vs. combat), that would still be wrong. Also, that particular example is weak because MAB doesn't indicate (or require) skill at all.

WAR, on the other hand, does indicate great sword use (as evidenced by the fact that a large majority of great swords are equippable by WAR). Skill also does indicate Weapon Skill availability, since a large number of WS are solely dependant on having the required skill. So yes, WAR being on Torcleaver would make sense.

What people are trying to say is that the Dev team shouldn't waste a single second on modifying a Empyrian just because warrior wants a new toy.
Your saying "Oh but we only want to be on it we don't care about the WS on Cala" well like i said before Devs shouldn't waste a single second on changing those things for a job that already has tons of other uses.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. What the development team should and shouldn't do is (thankfully) not up to you. Otherwise we'd still be stuck on 24 hours in between chocobo races.

And the best reason for not steering WAR towards Great Sword? SE does not want you to use them as much as your Great Axe because you hurt their feelings by dual wielding tiny axes for years.

You didn't name a single reason against it. Including this one.

So your affirmations while true they are meaningless because they are random facts about other random things and not a real reason to do anything about a non-issue.

I don't even disagree. I couldn't care less. I'm not affirming the OP's beliefs, I'm trying to invalidate some of the "arguments" people bring against it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

War has been on roughly 5 great swords since level cap rise, not counting Ragnarok/fake relic.

"A lot" of greatswords indeed.