Seriously devs - the balance

[Olor]

So I'm hearing new relic is upgraded with 100 peices - if that's the case does anyone else think it is madness?

[Alhanelem]

I think you would be incorrect in your comparison to say jobs (I.E. warrior/samurai) of 03 is anything even remotely close to those of today with all the changes.

Say what? Where did I make this comparison or say this? I said jobs change and evolve over time. That includes I.E. Warrior/Samurai from 03 vs now. You're right, they aren't remotely close to what they were back then. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

New abilities are going to make old thins progressively easier. That's why the new abilities exist. To make old challenges easier and to present new challenges that require intelligent use of the new features to win.

[Greatguardian]

So I'm hearing new relic is upgraded with 100 peices - if that's the case does anyone else think it is madness?

We're still not really sure where that information is coming from. The Magian data is screwed up on the test server, for both NA and JP clients as far as I can tell. One of the Kila trials redirects to an item from a 2004 holiday event, lol.

I'd call it speculative bullshit until there's some serious confirmation on either the data or the source. No one is going to build the equivalent of a relic to complete their AF2+2 sets.

[SpankWustler]

We're still not really sure where that information is coming from. The Magian data is screwed up on the test server, for both NA and JP clients as far as I can tell. One of the Kila trials redirects to an item from a 2004 holiday event, lol.

I am amazed by the randomness of the random stuff the Alzheimer's-afflicted Magian Moogle is spitting out now.

My personal favorites are the ones that currently award a cabinet or bookshelf for upgrading one's weapon. I imagine a character being so infuriated after completing the broken trial that he or she carries the offending furnishing away in a huff and uses it as an impromptu weapon. As you'd expect from a fifty pound wooden construct, it is quite effective.

My guess is that the Alzheimer's Moogle mumbled he wanted was a couple of 100 pieces to upgrade some piece or the other. Since this made more since than anything else he'd said about cabinets and event items, it was assumed to be correct. It's not impossible, but I wouldn't get worked up over it yet.

[Malamasala]

The real problem is when we don't get new challenges or those challenges are too inaccessible or not rewarding enough to get enough of a following (e.g. voidwatch).

The real problem is that people don't want challenges. They say they do, so they can sound cool, but in reality they do not want them.

Make for example a NM with en-death that goes through shadows. Suddenly only thing that can kill it is either kiting BLMs or a SMN party. Challenging? Well, 18 of 20 jobs can't do it, so it should be called hard or? But since you can make a group and win, it is too easy. So we need something harder than a monster that kills instantly. How about death aura? Now we are talking. As soon as a someone is within 20' they die. There we have it, a challenge to figure out how to kill a monster that kills everyone before they can touch it.

But is it really a challenge if it is impossible? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Personally I think SE needs more gimmick designs. Like a monster that takes 100 - damage from weapon damage. So someone hitting for 150, heals 50, someone who goes up with a weak weapon doing 5 damage, hits for 95. So on those NMs the best weapons are those that have very low damage rating like Trick Staff.

But yea, imagine how many relic and empy owners that would do such NMs and not just say "Nah, I won't do stuff I'm not awesome at".

There is no content you can make that makes people like greatguardian happy.

[Meyi]

I don't think that's true at all, Mala. Greatguardian is a pretty reasonable guy. I don't even see him complaining about content currently available, but rather making comments here and there how he would be interested in seeing some fresh, challenging content.

Sometimes the best part of a challenge is breaking it down and solving it.

I think SE was on the right track with Abyssea monsters by making them change depending on spawn conditions. The only reason this became so incredibly easy was the fact that they gave us the Abyssite of Discernment. When Abyssea first came out, it was incredibly difficult getting anything to proc because we had no clue what we were doing. I really like the idea that monsters vary depending on what day it is, what time it is, who popped them and the conditions of whoever popped it last. As I've seen said before, Abyssea may be the training grounds for the new end game content, and if it is, I'm very excited to see what Square Enix will create for us!

[SpankWustler]

The only things a Notorious Monster really needs to be both challenging and fun are a few interesting TP moves, high enough parameters that players will want enfeebling stuff on the monster and buffing stuff on themselves, the ability to be fought fairly often, and drops that feel like a reward instead of a punishment.

The Development Bros have created some commendably horrifying TP moves lately, but they seem compelled to make Notorious Monsters consistently immune to enfeebling magic and less often but still regularly equipped with some form of Dispel instead of just making the monster more difficult under the assumption it will be enfeebled and players will be well-buffed.

They also seem to weigh how often a monster can be fought against the chance of that monster dropping anything that anyone would ever want. If something can be fought on a regular basis, you can expect it to provide you with a plethora of logs and ore and logs and ore and logs and ore and logs and ore.

LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND LOGS AND LOGS AND ORE AND...LOGS?

[Ravenmore]

Its been beaten to death but its still true, the hardest thing that ever been or ever will be in FFXI is finding 5 to 17 other people that are not brain dead. Its also not like ever group has to break down each fight. Once a mob is down and the strat used is posted on wiki(well not anymore) or BGwiki its not that hard.

[Chriscoffey]

I stick to my skill chain idea which not only slows the fight down progressively from zerging all the time to a more controllable fight pattern for different stages of the fight mechanics.

[Hayward]

Whenever I read posts from people who call for more "challenge" I tend to read that with the stipulation "except for my superior job that has the best endgame gear on my server". Mellowy is in part right that people want a challenge except when they don't. I don't want any part of NMs that have Doom Auras or En-Doom like Xibalba or Myrmecoleon unless someone at S-E wises up and makes Cursna 100% effective against it.

Playing cards with someone who marked the deck isn't a challenge anyone should want to undertake. Nor should anyone want the type of "challenges" (read: stacked decks in S-E's favor) that some are wishing for.