Einherjar / Limbus / Nyzul Isle / Salvage - No More Proc Systems!!

[Orenwald]

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

[Aeonk]

By that logic, I'd only want the jobs that proc the most.
In abyssea, it becomes 'we should have NIN, we should have WAR, we should have WHM, we should have BLM, BLU and BRD. Everything else? We covered just about every proc, why care?'

And what's the alternative? Ukon WAR and WHM onry?

I already stated in my second post that the current proc system isn't perfect. Far from it. I even threw out some possible suggestions to improve on the current system to include more jobs without being the complete clusterfuck that is voidwatch.

So yea, until SE can properly balance the jobs to give incentive to bring all of them, the proc system is the next best thing. 6 jobs being useful is better than 2.

[Greatguardian]

SE is never going to win at making every job useful in one particular event. There isn't a single event in the world that would ever be able to do this properly, not while keeping all 20 jobs in this game unique.

The solution is simply more events. Let MNK shine in one place, and PUP in another. We already know that every job has some sort of niche where they function better than their peers. If you want to limit the power of specialist classes, restrict party sizes for certain events or drop people in different areas of a map to start with. I know I'll be much better able to survive on my own while my party regroups on Summoner or Puppetmaster than I would be on Monk or Warrior without backup.

Beyond that, it's important to make rewards enticing from every style of event. People do Abyssea and generally ignore Walk of Echoes (which is extremely hybrid-friendly) because Abyssea drops better shit. In trying to make the events unique, SE is going to end up making the rewards for each event different - and when things are different, one piece will always be better than the alternative, making the latter worthless.

Voidwatch can't be the be-all end-all. The Last Stand can't be the be-all end-all. If you're attempting to create a balanced environment for all 20 jobs in Endgame, then no singular event should take the stage as the epitome of endgame development because no single event is ever going to be able to fully utilize every one of the jobs in this game.

Create multiple paths to the same goal. That's how you encourage variety.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Aeonk,
While I like your proc idea, I don't think proc belongs in these events because they are made to move very fast thru the event in order to low man it, and proc takes up alot of time. In dynamis it was sort of ok because the purpose for said event, once you did a clear run or new hnm gear run, it's all about farming currency/af2. But with limbus or einherjar for example, these are events that have nothing to do with farming so to speak and everything to do with "hurry up, hurry up" because you need to get those 5 floors done in nyzil, you need to clear the chambers in 30 minutes, you need to get the te chest in limbus and get your butt up to the next floor if you want that chip. So, proc for these events would totally ruin the event for low manning, and lets face it they are not going to be suddenly popular to the point that that 1. you are going to find 6+ people to do the event with, except einherjar which you already need a decent amount of people and that's hard to come by if you don't have a ls just for that event, and 2. who wants to share with 6 people the drops when you can already low man the stuff with 3-4 (except einherjar, and if you can 3-4 man it hit me up please)?

[Helel]

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

And spamming steps and flourishes is not boring...? Give me a break.

[Aeonk]

SE is never going to win at making every job useful in one particular event. There isn't a single event in the world that would ever be able to do this properly, not while keeping all 20 jobs in this game unique.

The solution is simply more events. Let MNK shine in one place, and PUP in another. We already know that every job has some sort of niche where they function better than their peers. If you want to limit the power of specialist classes, restrict party sizes for certain events or drop people in different areas of a map to start with. I know I'll be much better able to survive on my own while my party regroups on Summoner or Puppetmaster than I would be on Monk or Warrior without backup.

Beyond that, it's important to make rewards enticing from every style of event. People do Abyssea and generally ignore Walk of Echoes (which is extremely hybrid-friendly) because Abyssea drops better shit. In trying to make the events unique, SE is going to end up making the rewards for each event different - and when things are different, one piece will always be better than the alternative, making the latter worthless.

Voidwatch can't be the be-all end-all. The Last Stand can't be the be-all end-all. If you're attempting to create a balanced environment for all 20 jobs in Endgame, then no singular event should take the stage as the epitome of endgame development because no single event is ever going to be able to fully utilize every one of the jobs in this game.

Create multiple paths to the same goal. That's how you encourage variety.

See, that's a fair solution in my book.

I'm not saying the proc system is a must-have deal, but to completely strip it away and not include content that other less desireable jobs are able to participate in is a step backwards, not forward.
That seems to be what others are suggesting. And that's not a real solution.

Maybe if the revamps SE has in mind for Nyzul/salvage/einherjar make for more diversity, that will help. But going off of what we know the events to be so far, I see many jobs getting the shaft once again. I hope SE proves me wrong, I really do.

[detlef]

And spamming steps and flourishes is not boring...? Give me a break.

This so much. Seriously.

[Afania]

Given how difficult it can be to take advantage of most Mythic weapons, this wouldn't bother me at all.

Some bro who doesn't change his imaginary pants would get to feel happy about his shiny thing, and knowledgeable people get to point out how someone that dense would actually do more damage with a simple fire-path Magian weapon and joke about it. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

Yes but this game is all about making progress, and achieve more goal after seeing your character improved. And Mythic(or w/e epic weapon it is) is a trophy of achieving your goal after you improve your performance.

Back at lv 75 era when I just ding 75, didn't know how to gear swap(or play my jobs properly), didn't have an EG event gear, I tried my first Nyzul run, and joined a Nyzul static tried to clear. That's when Nyzul was still challenging for newer ppl without experience. After we failed Floor 1~5 run for a month and static disbanded because of that, I realized I need better gears. I joined a dynamis LS to get BLU relic body for refresh, and got sea access+ joined limbus LS to upgrade my BLU AF1 to +1, after some gear grind and made different gear sets, our static reformed, and finally able to clear F100. That was an epic moment in my FFXI life, Nyzul 100 clear seemed impossible months ago, and in the end all the obsticle was overcomed and finally able to get clear.

I wouldn't even think about stuff such as doing Mythic before I have decent gear back at 75 cap, just because clearing Nyzul, salvage, ToAU HNMs, Einherjar, wasn't easy for someone just ding 75 with no EG experience/gear/friends, and there are priorities I need to do before attempting hardest weapon in this game.

Now you can pretty much clear all of those naked. It's like playing a RPG without trying to get better items and lv up, then you go to final boss right away. Do you fight Sephiroth in FF7 before getting enough materia/items/levels on Cloud? No you don't. You attempt the boss fight after a long journey, you don't attempy to fight him right from the beginning. Nyzul is already easy enough since you can climb 5+ floors nowadays, and by adding more tokens that just makes the entire section of this quest a joke. Now there's nothing to stop a lv 1 Onion knight to fight Dark cloud like in FF3, you don't need to make any progress, you just automically fight the final boss and automically wins. What's the meaning of even playing it then?

I've seen many ppl asking this and asking that on the forum about mythic weapon. Ask to remove the assault 3 ppl requirement because ppl can't find 2 other character to do assault(you can't even find 2 CHARACTERS to do an 5~30 min event in an MMORPG, seriously?) Ask unlimited Nyzul tag/Einherjar entrance so they can spam Nyzul/Einherjar like how they spam empy 10hrs a day and finish it in a week. All I see is just a bunch of impatient ppl want Mythic weapon to be something like Abyssea empy weapons, wants duobox-able assault like abyssea, no cool down time for nyzul/einherjar so they can spam both events for 10hrs a day and finish Mythic in 1 month. And the fact that most of the old events are easy means there are no obsticles too.

I started working on Mythic 1.5 year ago before empy even exist, joined 5 different Einherjar LS, made alliance of 18 ppl or join LS events to kill ToAU HNMs, made assault/salvage/nyzul static for alexandrite/assault clear/tokens, meet all sorts of ppl and play with different ppl during the process, did those title fights while it was still epic and challenging. The experience of making a Mythic(at least before lv cap increase) is nothing like soloing on BST in dyna for 2 months for a relic, or dual box with a mule 10hrs a day for an empy. There are epic moments during the process, unlike doing relic/empy nowadays. I can understand that due to lv cap increase, ToAU content is no longer worth anything challenge. But I still think 1~2 years is reasonable amount of time to finish a Mythic(some ppl spend 3+ years on relic back in the day, so 1 year isn't even as bad), but certainly not 1~2 months like relic/empy.

If you wanna make Mythic weapon easy and able to finish it naked that's fine, but we already have empy that can be done in 1 week, and relic can be done in 2 months with a mule, with many ppl owning more than 2 empy or relic. We don't need another fast cast weapon that can be done in one month and ppl ended up getting 20 Mythics for every job. I've got 3k token with just 3 ppl in pt in Nyzul in one run, and that's only 1.5 month of spamming Nyzul to finish this part if you want to. There are very little reason to make it drop more. Mythic should remain as the long journey to an end, a final goal for the job you truely loved that you would only do it once a life time, and a memoriable moment after this goal accomplished. If you really want a Mythic weapon and love your job enough, you will finish it eventually, instead of complaining over here because you want to finish it in 1 month instead of 1 year.

[Ravenmore]

Procs are for one thing alone and that was to combat zergs. Now kill speed and damage take a back seat to getting procs. They are doing this since its cheaper to draw out content for as long as the player base will put up with it so they don't have to make more content. They have no idea how else to do it with in the frame work they boxed them selfs into with having to work around the PS2 code limits and can't pull off the tricks other MMOs can.

[Tamoa]

I... like procs in Dynamis. stops it from being the same boring "Throw 18 DDs at it till it dies" borefest that Dynamis used to be. Dynamis was boring as sin before, and now I actually am having so much fun I'm making a relic weapon.

I like the changes to dynamis. Being able to enter for free once a day, solo, and get currency/relic armour was a change for the better. And I don't think having to proc to get currency was such a bad solution. Otherwise it would be too easy and the currency prices would have crashed a long time ago. They are already on the way down, at least on Asura, and Ru'lude is packed with people bazaaring currency.

Could SE have come up with another way of restricting currency drop? Quite possibly. As it is, I don't mind the proc system in dynamis, but like I already said - no more please SE.