Disturbing a cleave PT on purpose to hurt a group, [again or not again ToS?]

[Arcon]

I stopped reading @ "again or not again ToS"

Thanks for sharing. You enriched all our lives.

[Swords]

If they are doing it purely to harass you then you can get them temp/perma banned for it, all you have to do it call the GM and wait till they talk to you and try goad him into doing it while they are there watching. I got quite a few in trouble for this when I used to SMN burn and it works realyl well, they just depop infront of you

If you are pulling every mob and they are trying to get some then it's just competition but as he is purely harassing it's pretty simple. The more he says in say/tell the better too, he will hang himself with his own words..so try get him to talk as much as you can.

Aye, just FYI though make sure you don't do or say anything to incriminate yourself in the process. Things can easily be turned against you if your rude, cursing, or being a douche yourself (even if they are deserving). Ironically like trolls being very polite and for the most part ignoring them usually infuriates them more than anything, which makes them try harder to be a douche and makes them more likely to incriminate themselves.

Put in FF14's claiming system, problem solved. Ppl can help attack your monsters all they want, it won't bother ya anymore

It's still inherently flawed in this situation because it lets people monopolize all the aggroed mobs impeding progress for legit taggers, and gives opportunities to douches by allowing them to get hate on claimed targets and running off with the mob in question trying to unclaim it so they despawn or claim it for themselves.

Though, SE could always do something like implement a 5:00 debuff that has a high chance of inducing terror or intimidation for actions against monster targets when a player dies/flux's with monster hate. Call it a fear tactic, since your trying to run away or your scared of your opponents due to your weakened state, at the very least it would make players wait till they can take action against mobs again and put a kink into zombie tactics.

[hiko]

he follow me, then wait i gather together enough monster (~20 monster) then breakga and use "conflux" to make them despawn.

cure him? you get 1CE on each monster he breaked , (go from agro list to enmity list) if your close enough of mob they go after you.
other possibility (banable) cure spam him until mob wake and dmg him (if can't pk him you overenmity him and get monster attention)

edit : forgot about /blockaid. but on some retard like him odds are he doesnt have

[Kaizersan]

Just go at a different time or a different zone like I said before he can't be on all the time and I doubt he spends all day waiting for you to get on and yes it sucks and all but as long as the rules protect what he does you have no choice to just avoid him all together or change servers.

[Kristal]

Again, i want to point out about KB12559, evidence in log or not, standing next to a cleave PT and AGA they monster every time they are 5~10% and that for several minute, is all again the Rule. I just cannot understand how action is not taken immediately.

Unfortunately, rude and obnoxious behaviour is not a punishable offense. It gets even worse... if you in any way prevent that player from killing the 5~10% mobs you dealt almost all damage to, THEY can call a GM on you for malicious and disruptive gameplay and if a GM sees you pull even a single mob out of it's area, or call for help on even a single one, you are done for. It doesn't matter if there are plenty of mobs left in the area, if they cannot get exp and loot from YOUR pulled (but yellow) mobs, you are the culprit.

[uptempo]

Ilax weren't you the guy who made the big post about going around and waiting for people to die and takeing there yellow mobs if they died and didn't wipe. I mean i do this all the time but maybe this person is someone you did this to and he is indeed takeing his revenge on you lol.

Eitherway man up suck it up, you don't own the mobs in the zone which are yellow if he wants to take your cleave mobs he can.

[Yarly]

just "/say oops i'm sorry" if you intend to cleave other people's mobs and you're excused.
if you say something in ls or party about cleaving to be a jerk, then you're screwed

just make sure everything you type in game has some form of remorse in it and you can cleave/steal all the mobs you can handle

[Ilax]

Ilax weren't you the guy who made the big post about going around and waiting for people to die and takeing there yellow mobs if they died and didn't wipe.

Yup i wont hide from it too, it was about NM thought. The fair game result into: if NM go unclaim, too bad for who was fighting it, steal is totally legit.

In this case is kinda different, i say kinda because of course you can limit your point of view to "is yellow, is fair", but fact is the guy wait on last 5~10% to final blow x20 monster, don't be fooled or confuse, this is not a monster steal, but a kill shot stolen.

I also hope you remember the conclusion of my other thread too, because i was explaining if is fair for him, the same can be fair for me, and i doubt i really need to explain what can result out of this, i let your imagination work a bit, and at this point, we can say goodbye to FC and CW.

Nothing prevent me by frustration of not be able to FC my way, to ruin everyone FC as well, i also think that create a good motive to do it, valid for you or not, the fact is that wont be again the ToS. So the real topic here is about how the rule should be modify in manner to prevent this, and not to see if we can do it because obviously with lack of GM decision about this issue, is clear that they have no clue how to deal with this, as someone said, GM are not hired to JUDGE, and i already said that before, but they are here to follow a specific guideline with the famous KB (Rules and Policies) and currently these are not enough specific to address the current problem.

Take my next problem and choice now, the first one is to try to do my own justice and break even more rule (mpk, cfh on mob, etc), my second choice is to go piss off more cleaver (as we said, this is not breaking rule) and create a huge amount of player unhappy. So choice #1 bring me in jail, choice #2 give me a chance to ruin my reputation but have tiny chance to fix the problem definitively.

Do this make sense? Think twice when you say this is not again ToS and shouldn't. But if the conclusion of the thread end in that direction, then be it and let the great FC/CW be something from the past.

[Camiie]

Just go at a different time or a different zone like I said before he can't be on all the time and I doubt he spends all day waiting for you to get on and yes it sucks and all but as long as the rules protect what he does you have no choice to just avoid him all together or change servers.

What if there's only a certain window of time the OP has to play or conduct his cleaving service? Just stop doing cleaves? Only attempt a cleave if the harasser isn't online? Quit and find a new game?

What if the harasser follows him to whatever zone he goes to? What if the guy instead hunts down another cleave party to harass?

If this is indeed the person I'm thinking of, Ilax isn't the only person he does this to. Others have called GMs on him and of course he's still out there doing his thing. The guy seems to be a general nuisance to the community, but I guess as long as he doesn't use Flee hacks or go on racist tirades in Port Jeuno he can just do as he pleases.

[Kitkat]

In this case is kinda different, i say kinda because of course you can limit your point of view to "is yellow, is fair", but fact is the guy wait on last 5~10% to final blow x20 monster, don't be fooled or confuse, this is not a monster steal, but a kill shot stolen.

You're arguing semantics here at this point. The kill isn't really the issue so much as the fact the person is being malicious about it. Stating that their primary purpose is to interrupt your activity is the primary point, which is against ToS. Him killing the mobs is the same thing as you taking a yellow NM, there isn't claim to it thus it is "fair game."

The point you're trying to prove above all else is that he follows you, stays near you, waits for the chance, then purposely disrupts what you are doing. Doesn't matter why your are doing it, it only matters that he is hindering you from doing so and has stated as much. Simply claiming an unclaimed mob is only the tactic used, the intent behind the tactic is what is in question.

Scenario A: If group A is cleaving a specific group of mobs and then group B comes in the do the same thing which results in people running in and cleaving the opposite groups mobs the issue falls under the "fair claim" loophole.

Scenario B: Same scenario as above, but mix an NM into it such as tunga. Now Group B wants to disrupt Group A by purposely pulling an NM on top of them then dying so aggro on group A occurs. This is seen as malicious behavior.

Scenario C: Now, once again same scenario as first. The difference being there is no Group B, only Individual B. Individual B is in the same area as Group A with the intent to disrupt what Group A is doing. Individual B sends /tells or types something in /say belaying this intent to someone in Group A. Individual B uses the Loophole "Unclaimed = fair game" to disrupt Group A's activities by use of AOE kill shots, or AOE claim spells but instead of killing individual B runs to conflux to lose aggro and cause force despawn of the mobs. This continues to occur for hours and multiple times.

The reason this differs from 2 groups fighting over claims is the intent and motive behind each others actions:

Scenario A: Group B's motives are the same as Group A's, to farm large groups of enemies for xp/cruor/items. A GM has little to no reason to reprimand Group B for running in and stealing unclaimed mobs off Group A.

Scenario B: Both groups are there for the same reason, but this time Group B is breaking ToS by purposely MPKing group A in order to hinder them. A GM has fair reason to warn/jail/ban the individual in Group B or the entire group based on findings.

Scenario C: Group A has motive to farm xp/cruor/items, but Individual B has no similar motive. Individual B has come with the intent to not only impede Group A, but make it known to Group A that is their purpose for doing so. Individual B has said something in /say or /tell to relay their intent and motives to Group A. Through investigation a GM has fair reason to dictate that this is a form of harassment meant to impede, disrupt, and cause distress on Group A through their actions.

The crutch on Scenario C is not just the GM, but what information anyone from Group A can provide to the GM so they can properly investigate the accusations. If the GM cannot find valid proof showing the intent of Individual B through the chat logs then the GM is unable to fulfill conditions that needs to be met before they proceed to correct the problem. This breaks down to the old saying "If you didn't document it, it didn't happen" (anyone in record keeping will know this reference) thus if the GM takes action without locating proof first they are only placing themselves in a position where they will get reprimanded.

This is why it is important for the person making a GM call to not have anything showing that they baited the person they made the call on in. You must also keep track of all interactions between you and the person you made the call on.
Ask yourself these questions before making a call:

Q: Did the person send you a /tell or type something in /say? If so, what and when?

Why:This information is needed to make searching through chat logs easier as you give a window of time, which chat channels the GM has to look through, and what it is a GM needs in order to find the information.

Q: When did this start, and how long has it been going on?

Why: This allows the GM to once again look over a specific span of time to gauge how serious the nature of the issue is.

Q: Did you say anything in response, positive or negative, to the individual in question?

Why: This will go to show the GM if you further instigated the problem, or if the person was being malicious without justification showing their only intent was to disrupt a group/individual that fit a certain criteria. If you further instigated the issue there is a chance that the issue will, at best, result in only a written warning. At worst, the issue will never go further than the initial call due to information found.

Q: What, if anything, have you done to avoid this individual? Have you Blisted them, tried different areas, times, mobs? Did they follow you to different mobs/zones/times?

Why: This will further prove malicious intent behind the actions as the person is following you with no other motive aside from hindering your progress which is part of the definition of Harassment.


The more information you have available for a GM at the time of a call, the more likely you are to see results from the call. Another thing to keep in mind is the number of calls in the past you've place about this person including any dates/times and GM spoke to. I'm sure GMs are required to keep records of all calls they answer, but this would be something that they may or may not specifically give information on if asked directly depending on policies.