Concerns about SCH.

[Crossarius]

Enfeebles cannot possibly be a reason to sub rdm as they are not rdm exclusive, with the exception of gravity. So it does come down to convert and fast cast.
Everytime I use /WHM I feel crippled in damage because I don't have any native MAB job trait. I use /WHM exclusively for situations where I have to cover Staff and Club Ws (which is stupid design imo, but a different topic) and I have no real reason to use /BLM as I feel that fast cast and convert have much more impact.

My Jobs are SCH, SMN and BLM and I only consider the first two of them my mains. With the lack of a more potent cure I just cannot always keep up with the damage dealt. Accession + Stoneskin is not as strong as it used to be back in the 75 days.
With a raptured Cure IV + aurorastorm + obi + cape and a cure potency atma I can break 800+ HP healed but it is still restricted by the number of charges available.
An overhauled version of Cure V (kill the low enmity cap for not WHMs, as it has been suggested a million times), we could at least alternate between cures.

As of for addendum:black I hope that once we learned all t5 nukes, they lift the need for addendum:black for t4 nukes.

[Rambus]

I do not know why BLM got stuff like Elemental Celerity and man dose. I do not like how BLM is able to cast faster without arts then adding blm/sch since sch got stoneskin.

I thought the idea was BLM was supposed to nuke harder spell for spell but SCH would be able to cast faster. Right now though its a bit backwards like aero V from SCH being able to match blizzard V from a blm. The idea of balance is really out the window ever since the game came 80, seem really hard to bring back the balances we had at 75.

As of for addendum:black I hope that once we learned all t5 nukes, they lift the need for addendum:black for t4 nukes.

I said this before on a different fourm as well, it would go though the line like around RDMs have them:

stone IV should read:
BLM 68/ RDM 77
SCH 70 ( Addendum black) SCH 76.
and keep going like that for the other IV spells

Crossarius , you do bring up a point with stoneskin being really nice at 75 now it holds a lot less value. SE really needs to start lifting more caps like the cap on stoneskin. those caps are for a game at 75, not 90 or 99

[Silvers]

The point is having them sub job only makes you want to sub job it, that's how it works.

If you get everything naturally then there would be no need for subjobs, it's regardless if they're basic spells or not. Warp and Teleport spells are basic, you still need to /blm and /whm to get them.

Convert, Fast Cast, and all the enfeebles is a reason to /rdm.

What's your definition of a basic spell? Teleports and warps are job specific/unique, no other job has them.
In fairness, SCH should have a couple native enfeeble magics other than Sleeps and Break. What was the point of Light Arts giving a boost to enfeeble magic skill if they don't have a enfeebling white magic natively. This argument should have been make when they 1st done the adjustment. On the same note, why does SCH have divine magic skill (a fairly high one at that) but not divine magic at all natively? If the skills are native, they should be supported by having spells without the need of a sub. I understand the story with RDM, but SCH came long after. There is no reason for having skills without spells to go with them. It's like having a native weapon skill rating on a job, and your job can not equip any weapon associated with your skill.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What's your definition of a basic spell? Teleports and warps are job specific/unique, no other job has them.
In fairness, SCH should have a couple native enfeeble magics other than Sleeps and Break. What was the point of Light Arts giving a boost to enfeeble magic skill if they don't have a enfeebling white magic natively. This argument should have been make when they 1st done the adjustment. On the same note, why does SCH have divine magic skill (a fairly high one at that) but not divine magic at all natively? If the skills are native, they should be supported by having spells without the need of a sub. I understand the story with RDM, but SCH came long after. There is no reason for having skills without spells to go with them. It's like having a native weapon skill rating on a job, and your job can not equip any weapon associated with your skill.

It's a job that's power relies in their choice of support job.

[Sotek]

It's a job that's power relies in their choice of support job.

Oh joy, this logic again.

There is no choice in sub job for Scholar, enfeebles aren't even a part of that. Convert and Fast Cast alone completely out weigh any other sub job. Divine Seal certainly isn't worth losing Convert for and I may be mistaken but Black Mage offers nothing more than Warp, Stun and 2INT, colour me unimpressed. You could give Scholar main every single Red Mage spell from 1-99 and it still wouldn't make a difference, the only jobs it truly gives more choice to is White Mage and Black Mage.

I'm not going to bother saying that they're spells we'll have regardless again, I've said it's simply a matter of completion enough, you can win this argument if you like.

@Elemental Celerity, since I didn't touch on it earlier. Scholar already has this, it's called Alacrity, it halves casting time. Somewhat related to the above, lowering the required level for EC could potentially allow /Black Mage without a net loss of Fast Cast, making the idea of subbing it slightly more respectable.

[Tazz]

Lets us AoE Silence Paralyze Warp Slow Spike spells all those lol - I dont see why hastega is nerfed either lol. AoE elemental magic would be awesome and still not overpowered because BLM have -ja spells now too Elemental Celerity, although great for blm has forced me into doing all my staff trials on blm, not on SCH. I cast to slow lol

[Rambus]

I would also request weather II spells ( a double weather effect) since people are starting to sub or weather spells. you could change it so all weather I spells are subable so we can get weather II.

about SJ

having MAB II, enfeebles ( gravity is BIG) is enough to agure that /rdm is needed to complete the job.

to me SCH should be support mage job ( or should be) though crowed control , self SCing that would allow blms to mb stronger spells and so on. /RDM is needed for all that. abyssea though.... thorws out the need for that, and thats why SCH is not really used, all about procing over anything else.

I see SCH should be the mage from of a COR, able to buff other people while doing damage, we can buff blms wih weather, sc for them, and AoE crowd control, and support a WHM in a tank pt giving aquaviel , stoneskin and phalanx.

but as i said abyssea thows all that out the window and is mroe about what one's self can do, rather then a support, thats why cor, brd and other general support jobs are lacking thier roles inside abyssea.

[Panthera]

Scholar and Red Mage both need Cure V. Cure IV just isn't cutting it anymore.

[Miera]

When I learned about SCHs getting the spells Aquavail, Stoneskin and Blink It was a releif to me because honestly, they should have gotten them in the first place, I would like to have acess to Slow, Paralyze, Silence, ect because well we have pretty high enfeebling magic but don't have the natural ability to use enfeebles. Yes, Cure V, though how I have been in many arguements already about how RDMs and SCHs desperately need Cure V, we wont be putting WHMs out of business. God, it upsets me with how people think like that.

WHMs still have acess in Cure VI and they have neat JAs to boot, no one would ever overlook a WHM. However SCHs and RDM are put on the back burner because people scream for Cure V and VIs, I can never get into the good shouts because of this. We have like a D rating in Healing magic and quite frankly, Cure IV just doesn't cut it anymore. Its stressful and frustrating when you are the only healer and your tank is fighting harder mobs and getting the snot beat out of him.

I refused to give my assistance to those who need a healer when they cannot find one when they feel we Don't need Cure V.

I'd like to see Aspir II, we got Aspir at such a low level we should have gotten it when BLMs got their T2 Aspir. I heard comments like "Why do you need aspir II when you can make aspir turn AoE?" well honestly in most situations I am not going to run out into a crowd of mobs and use Manisfestation aspir and get my self kill just to get more MP.

[Kashel-Sylph]

Klimaform is a great spell, the duration is very small and the recast is very high, A stratagem that increases the duration of spells cast under dark arts for Klimaform/Helixes or maybe just adjusting the recast/duration of this spell would make me happy. (I would spend 2 charges on that before focalization)

Also adjusting the amount of enmity down/up from our new enmity control spells -10/+10? Obviously the Storm II Spells would be so cool, as well as tier II Helixes.

If they don't give us CureV I would be ok with some kind of healing magic crit. job trait occ. doubles healing amount, But then again I have no problems with healing, Cure % set + Obis + Magian staff + Twilight cape.

The other posts in this thread are right about modus veritas... it sucks right now, I love what it was but its essentially useless right now.

Not trying to get SE to overpower SCH Just making suggestions, SCH is my main and i love to play it. Any Improvements would be appreciated.