Concerns about SCH.

[Miera]

When I learned about SCHs getting the spells Aquavail, Stoneskin and Blink It was a releif to me because honestly, they should have gotten them in the first place, I would like to have acess to Slow, Paralyze, Silence, ect because well we have pretty high enfeebling magic but don't have the natural ability to use enfeebles. Yes, Cure V, though how I have been in many arguements already about how RDMs and SCHs desperately need Cure V, we wont be putting WHMs out of business. God, it upsets me with how people think like that.

WHMs still have acess in Cure VI and they have neat JAs to boot, no one would ever overlook a WHM. However SCHs and RDM are put on the back burner because people scream for Cure V and VIs, I can never get into the good shouts because of this. We have like a D rating in Healing magic and quite frankly, Cure IV just doesn't cut it anymore. Its stressful and frustrating when you are the only healer and your tank is fighting harder mobs and getting the snot beat out of him.

I refused to give my assistance to those who need a healer when they cannot find one when they feel we Don't need Cure V.

I'd like to see Aspir II, we got Aspir at such a low level we should have gotten it when BLMs got their T2 Aspir. I heard comments like "Why do you need aspir II when you can make aspir turn AoE?" well honestly in most situations I am not going to run out into a crowd of mobs and use Manisfestation aspir and get my self kill just to get more MP.

[Kashel-Sylph]

Klimaform is a great spell, the duration is very small and the recast is very high, A stratagem that increases the duration of spells cast under dark arts for Klimaform/Helixes or maybe just adjusting the recast/duration of this spell would make me happy. (I would spend 2 charges on that before focalization)

Also adjusting the amount of enmity down/up from our new enmity control spells -10/+10? Obviously the Storm II Spells would be so cool, as well as tier II Helixes.

If they don't give us CureV I would be ok with some kind of healing magic crit. job trait occ. doubles healing amount, But then again I have no problems with healing, Cure % set + Obis + Magian staff + Twilight cape.

The other posts in this thread are right about modus veritas... it sucks right now, I love what it was but its essentially useless right now.

Not trying to get SE to overpower SCH Just making suggestions, SCH is my main and i love to play it. Any Improvements would be appreciated.

[Hiroshiko]

When I learned about SCHs getting the spells Aquavail, Stoneskin and Blink It was a releif to me because honestly, they should have gotten them in the first place, I would like to have acess to Slow, Paralyze, Silence, ect because well we have pretty high enfeebling magic but don't have the natural ability to use enfeebles. Yes, Cure V, though how I have been in many arguements already about how RDMs and SCHs desperately need Cure V, we wont be putting WHMs out of business. God, it upsets me with how people think like that.

WHMs still have acess in Cure VI and they have neat JAs to boot, no one would ever overlook a WHM. However SCHs and RDM are put on the back burner because people scream for Cure V and VIs, I can never get into the good shouts because of this. We have like a D rating in Healing magic and quite frankly, Cure IV just doesn't cut it anymore. Its stressful and frustrating when you are the only healer and your tank is fighting harder mobs and getting the snot beat out of him.

The Cure V issue still worries me a bit. I don’t totally disagree with you, but I feel that many people have overlooked the implications of handing SCH (and RDM too) Cure V without some way of balancing it. I have both WHM and SCH so that’s my comparison point (I know enough about RDM, but not much from experience). Personally, I always preferred healing on WHM just because it was more natural to me, but that aside, SCH always had a lot of tools to improve their healing abilities and have only gained more over the updates.

My issue with Cure V is that before Abyssea, there was only one tier separation between WHMs and the other “main healers” (SCH and RDM). Both SCH and RDM had tools that made them more efficient at healing and thus more desirable in most situations. Even with /SCH, WHMs were sometimes second to RDMs when it came to healing because Cure V (and a lot of the other tools WHM had) wasn’t necessary for things such as experience parties or even Nyzul Isle. In those cases though, what held SCH back was the lack of Haste. Fast-forward to “the Age of Abyssea” and the level 90 cap, the lines have blurred and placement has shifted. WHMs are pretty much required and SCHs and RDMs are struggling to keep up with the healing load. DDs have TONs of HP that need to be healed and damage is exceeding Cure IV. This is where I agree with you, SCH and RDM need something to help them keep up, but neither should shadow WHM because those jobs are hybrids and can bring other things to the table in addition to healing. However, handing Cure V to both mages would bring us back to the one tier separation and potentially displace WHM (I wanted to mention what WHM does have, but that’d make this longer).

Many people like to use the “but WHM has Cure VI argument!;” however, many WHMs (check the forum) agree that Cure VI is not very MP efficient. My Cure V heals about 1000-1100 on average and Cure VI is about 1400-1500, but the MP price is 122 and 205 respectively with Light Arts. In fact, most of the time Cure VI will over cure and waste MP. Couple that the fact that outside of Abyssea, Cure VI isn’t really necessary because most DDs don’t have the HP to warrant its use nor are they taking that amount of damage (similar to Cure V pre-Abyssea). Even with all the Refresh atma that we have available, Cure VI is usually a backup for when Cure V is down and the situation calls for it. Basically, it’s gone from Cure III spam with Cure V as backup to Cure V spam with Cure VI as backup.

Since this is starting to become a wall of text, I’ll cut it short but I have other talking points. If someone sparks one of my other talking points I’ll post my perspective on it, but I hope this can be a constructive discussion. My other points revolve around SCHs stratagems vs. WHMs JAs, Cure potency, and Divine magic triggers, but that could be lengthy… Overall, I agree something needs to be done, but what exactly still eludes me, so I’d like to see what others think. Also, we can’t ignore the world outside of Abyssea because there is still a chance that SE will create events outside again without atma.

Summary (TL: DR): SCH and RDM need something to improve their healing capabilities. However, handing Cure V without some check and balances would bring us back to the days where there was only one tier of separation between WHMs and the other mages. Cure VI isn’t as powerful as it appears due to its inefficiency and being unnecessary out of Abyssea.

P.S. to Miera: Sorry, but I noticed what you said about Healing skill and wanted to correct something. SCH only has a D in healing when Light Arts is not activated, but that skill jumps to a B+ (+15 skill with AF1 legs). Healing magic skill doesn’t have as large of an effect on Cure spells though after a certain point. Cure potency and MND will do a lot more for Cure spells than Healing Magic skill after the cap has been reached.

[Rambus]

The Cure V issue still worries me a bit. I don’t totally disagree with you, but I feel that many people have overlooked the implications of handing SCH (and RDM too) Cure V without some way of balancing it. I have both WHM and SCH so that’s my comparison point (I know enough about RDM, but not much from experience). Personally, I always preferred healing on WHM just because it was more natural to me, but that aside, SCH always had a lot of tools to improve their healing abilities and have only gained more over the updates.

My issue with Cure V is that before Abyssea, there was only one tier separation between WHMs and the other “main healers” (SCH and RDM). Both SCH and RDM had tools that made them more efficient at healing and thus more desirable in most situations. Even with /SCH, WHMs were sometimes second to RDMs when it came to healing because Cure V (and a lot of the other tools WHM had) wasn’t necessary for things such as experience parties or even Nyzul Isle. In those cases though, what held SCH back was the lack of Haste. Fast-forward to “the Age of Abyssea” and the level 90 cap, the lines have blurred and placement has shifted. WHMs are pretty much required and SCHs and RDMs are struggling to keep up with the healing load. DDs have TONs of HP that need to be healed and damage is exceeding Cure IV. This is where I agree with you, SCH and RDM need something to help them keep up, but neither should shadow WHM because those jobs are hybrids and can bring other things to the table in addition to healing. However, handing Cure V to both mages would bring us back to the one tier separation and potentially displace WHM (I wanted to mention what WHM does have, but that’d make this longer).

Many people like to use the “but WHM has Cure VI argument!;” however, many WHMs (check the forum) agree that Cure VI is not very MP efficient. My Cure V heals about 1000-1100 on average and Cure VI is about 1400-1500, but the MP price is 122 and 205 respectively with Light Arts. In fact, most of the time Cure VI will over cure and waste MP. Couple that the fact that outside of Abyssea, Cure VI isn’t really necessary because most DDs don’t have the HP to warrant its use nor are they taking that amount of damage (similar to Cure V pre-Abyssea). Even with all the Refresh atma that we have available, Cure VI is usually a backup for when Cure V is down and the situation calls for it. Basically, it’s gone from Cure III spam with Cure V as backup to Cure V spam with Cure VI as backup.

Since this is starting to become a wall of text, I’ll cut it short but I have other talking points. If someone sparks one of my other talking points I’ll post my perspective on it, but I hope this can be a constructive discussion. My other points revolve around SCHs stratagems vs. WHMs JAs, Cure potency, and Divine magic triggers, but that could be lengthy… Overall, I agree something needs to be done, but what exactly still eludes me, so I’d like to see what others think. Also, we can’t ignore the world outside of Abyssea because there is still a chance that SE will create events outside again without atma.

Summary (TL: DR): SCH and RDM need something to improve their healing capabilities. However, handing Cure V without some check and balances would bring us back to the days where there was only one tier of separation between WHMs and the other mages. Cure VI isn’t as powerful as it appears due to its inefficiency and being unnecessary out of Abyssea.

P.S. to Miera: Sorry, but I noticed what you said about Healing skill and wanted to correct something. SCH only has a D in healing when Light Arts is not activated, but that skill jumps to a B+ (+15 skill with AF1 legs). Healing magic skill doesn’t have as large of an effect on Cure spells though after a certain point. Cure potency and MND will do a lot more for Cure spells than Healing Magic skill after the cap has been reached.

I read though your post and i saw RDM > whm in Nyzul Isle. I was so annoyed with RDMs in Nyzul Isle due to lacking HPS I started to refuse to go to it without a WHM. I went to WHM to nyzul isle if i had too and my SCH would never touch the event since it was supar like RDM is for curing and nuking wasn't needed.

I do agree cure VI needs rebalancing with RDM,PLD, SCH getting cure V. you also have to consider this. Jobs as a curing main should not have the same max cure as /whm or /rdm at 99. YOU HAVE to give them those cures otherwise your suck on 75 mindset. The other Solution is make healing skill mean something to able to pop out 600 ish cure IVs as base with healing skill we have at 90.

I will agree in getting a form of Elemental celerity. it could be less potent then the BLM's though, plus it would fair better on SCH vs RDM. We are suppose to nuke better then RDM and they get nuke spells that we need Addendum: Black.


Siiri this is the first time I agree with you on something. yes I agree that MAB to dark arts is a bit much. I am happy with our damage, but like others said in other threads (guess I am loosing track with these threads) we need more uniqueness. fusion spells for level 3 scs and so on would be nice.

[Hiroshiko]

I read though your post and i saw RDM > whm in Nyzul Isle. I was so annoyed with RDMs in Nyzul Isle due to lacking HPS I started to refuse to go to it without a WHM. I went to WHM to nyzul isle if i had too and my SCH would never touch the event since it was supar like RDM is for curing and nuking wasn't needed.

I do agree cure VI needs rebalancing with RDM,PLD, SCH getting cure V. you also have to consider this. Jobs as a curing main should not have the same max cure as /whm or /rdm at 99. YOU HAVE to give them those cures otherwise your suck on 75 mindset. The other Solution is make healing skill mean something to able to pop out 600 ish cure IVs as base with healing skill we have at 90.

I will agree in getting a form of Elemental celerity. it could be less potent then the BLM's though, plus it would fair better on SCH vs RDM. We are suppose to nuke better then RDM and they get nuke spells that we need Addendum: Black.


Siiri this is the first time I agree with you on something. yes I agree that MAB to dark arts is a bit much. I am happy with our damage, but like others said in other threads (guess I am loosing track with these threads) we need more uniqueness. fusion spells for level 3 scs and so on would be nice.

I mentioned Nyzul because on the Ragnarok sever many people wouldn't go without a RDM most of the time. WHMs were still useful and sought after, but some groups were more comfortable with just a RDM than with just a WHM. However, that was on a case by case basis.

Anyways, I agree with you about the Cure issue. Something needs to be done, but what exactly must be considered for current and future balance. It would be ridiculous for anything /WHM or /RDM to be able to access an almost equally potent Cure IV as RDM, SCH, and even PLD before gear. I entirely agree with you that Healing Magic Skill needs to have a stronger impact on Cure potency. That alone would make Cures more balanced across the mage jobs since WHM has the highest natural skill. I think I mentioned the same idea somewhere (could have been WHM forums), but currently Healing Magic is not as significant as MND after the soft cap is reached. However, they would have to make skill ups a bit easier (I've noticed some increase since the last update, but the frequency could still be better.)

Adjusting the Cure formula seems like the a decent way to boost Cures across all jobs without stepping on another job's toes. Overall though, SCH just needs something entirely unique that warrants utilizing them.

[Meowryu]

Summary (TL: DR): SCH and RDM need something to improve their healing capabilities. However, handing Cure V without some check and balances would bring us back to the days where there was only one tier of separation between WHMs and the other mages. Cure VI isn’t as powerful as it appears due to its inefficiency and being unnecessary out of Abyssea.

I don't think Cure V would break SCH/RDM as jobs and make WHM an unnecessary job in parties/events again. WHM has a few things neither of these jobs would bring to the table.

Afflatus Solace: Free stoneskin (up to 300hp) a cure is BOSS.

Divine Caress: Removing a status effect and giving an 80% resistance to it for 1 min, oh and DCaress has a 1 min recast.

Divine Benison: 50% fastcast for status removal spells; you've never na'd someone as fast as this . (-Enmity as well).

Auspice: +10 (+20 with AF3+2) Subtle blow is amazing for lowmanning NMs, allowing a member to remove SB gear for other gear and remain at SB cap.

Esuna: AoE na' spell. Nothing super amazing, but a utility spell none the less.

Baramnesra: With no Na spell for amesia, stacking barfira + this allows for 1/2, 1/4, 1/8th resists on amnesia. Utility spell.

Shell/Pro-ra V: Merited versions are better than their single target brothers (although only by a small margin)

Barspell Merits: +10 MDB on barspells

AF3+2: Pants: Free MP when you drop a bomb cure; which WHM is great at. Cure V/VIing for a huge amount of hp, getting some mp (50~80) back, and a 300 hp stoneskin on a target seems alright.

AF3+2 Set Bonus: Chance a barspell will 100% resist a matching element is great, doesn't always proc do to the low % chance (5-10%~?) but saves you mp from having to heal after an -aga etc.



Each job can bring a different suite of benefits to a group and I don't believe giving SCH or RDM Cure V would be unbalanced to the point where WHM would become an unnecessary job; on the contrary I believe it would still be the best healer in game.