FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto [Blue Mage]

[Tashan]

At lv 75 if you used a PLD tank, their enmity generating ability was no where near as good as a well geared RNG(there were no CDC at that time for PLDs, they had even less enmity generating tool). There's no way RNG can go all out and do dmg without taking the risk of screwing up the pt formation. They need to hold back, and there's still the risk after they WS.

SMN is decent though, although I'm not sure in the process of resummon and such will lower too much dmg output or not.

In regards to PLD's emnity you address that with TA Emnity management, but yeah RNGs did have to watch themselves a little.

As for SMNs, in all honesty I know nothing about how SMN works. All I know is I have seen many a HNM been Garuda Predator Claws spammed to death.

And Abyssea also created a lot of bandwagon BLUs that doesn't enjoy play the job and just lv it for yellow proc, and never bother to get any spells/gears besides proc spells because they just lv BLU as a proc whore.

Anything popular will have a bandwagon following it. I was on the LV75 RDM bandwagon, people rode the LV75 SAM train and right now NIN is a bus in rush hour.

Having a job as a requirement because of proc is making this game less fun than it should be. Ppl who doesn't enjoy playing BLU is forced to play it for proc, while making others that spent the time on the job feel sad to see others gimping it for the sake of efficency. Ppl who just want to get shit done is forced to find specific job for proc, which can be a bit painful sometimes. Of course we all want our main job to be needed for everything, but sometimes it just created more pain.

There will always be some level of required job in this game, whether it's imposed by us or SE. At LV75 any strategy which involved a BLM could not be done by anything else. If you want to merit effectively, you'd need either a BRD or COR setup, a TP melee and a Healer, preferably RDM or WHM/SCH.

The procing system at the very least expanded upon our chosen requirements by creating roles in addition to Tanking, Damage Dealing, Support and Healing.

Seriously, why do I need to lv NIN to solo/duo empy trials(that's my friend's suggestion when I told him I want to make an Almace....he told me to go lv NIN) when it's soloable/duoable on BLU ._.

Don't do it. I've done up to my LV85 weapon so far by having other people play NIN. It's tricky and subjob dependant, but a BLU can proc the following Red Weakness:

Red Lotus Blade, Seraph Blade, Seraph Strike, Sunburst, Earth Crusher, Cyclone, Raiden Thrust.

It's not enough to replace the 2 Slot NIN + WAR combo, but it gets a lot done.

[Tashan]

1. Plenilune Embrace+magic fruit+winds of promy? Some +MND stat spells are good although it's not really needed IMO, would rather set usual DD/stun/sleep spells to keep some form of versatility when situation changes.

2.Sub-zero smash(para)/Filamented hold(slow)/Actinic Burst(flash)/headbutt(stun)/dream flower or sheep song(sleep)/blank gaze or geist wall(dispel)/Disseverment(Poison)/Aureral drape(blind and silence)/benthnc typhoon(def/mdef down)/Magnetite Cloud(gravity)/Regurgitation(bind)/Demoralizing Roar(attack down)/Infrasonics(eva down)

Depending on the mob may remove some if it doesn't land or not needed on the target.

3. I don't consider BLU to be enhancing job at all with long recast time of Diffusion. I guess AoE refresh in Salvage if healer is a WHM? Or AoE attack buff before zerg? Or diamondhide which isn't that effective and would rather accession SS......

4. Would probably keep magic fruit/P.embrace/winds of promy/Sub-zero smash/Filamented hold/Actinic Burst/benthnc typhoon/disseverment at least, other debuff depends on what benefits the situation the most I guess.

5. That I'm totally not sure, I haven't play BLU to deal ranged dmg only for very long time since I have an empy COR if I need ranged dmg, and most of the time ranged dmg are not really really needed nowadays(even in VWNM I just run in and efflux QC and run away)

Where noteworthy, can you evaluate your view on a Blue Mage fulfilling on those roles with the tools you've suggested at hand?

1. Healing - MP Efficient Cure 4.5 and Cure 5.5 Spells, coupled with an AoE Erase. In my opinion this put's BLU in the same bracket as DNC-Like support healing, and not enough for a BLU to fulfill that role effectively.

It get's better with a WHM support job, and -na spells. With /WHM this setup can easily allow a Blue Mage to effectively main heal most parties. For an alliance, more healers will be required for the other parties.

2. Enfeebling - A solid set of options. The issue here is whether the enfeebles will be required or outranked by NIN and RDM.

4. Hybrid - True it is quite situational.

5. Ranged - Sorry when I said Ranged Attack, I also meant to include nuking. Basically fighting from a distance.

My question is if ranged dmg is really really needed nowadays though?

In situations where you want noone in range of a HNM, yes.

[Tashan]

Tbh I still don't think "replaceable" is that much of a big deal. On the other hand irreplaceable isn't always better. There used to be so many player leveled BRD at lv 75 so they can join merit pt or EG event, and ended up stuck with BRD forever and not allowed to play other jobs, and complained etc.

True.

You used Einherjar as an example, I'll just use it to explain. Having a BLU for T3 used to be very good because of stun at lv 75, and it will make T3 much easier. But if you can't find a BLU(or if LS BLU doesn't feel like wanting to play BLU that day), that's just fine. Replace the BLU with another DD or healer. You lost stun, but you get more dmg or healing, in the end the difference isn't that big, you lost some advantage, you gain other advantage. It may not be the most optimal result, but it's at least 75%~85% as effective as optimal setup. This applies to all contents that doesn't involve proc besides zerging to use BLU. It's not irreplaceable for most optimal pt setup for most of the situation, but it's at least 75% as effective as specialists and BLU has some advantage other jobs doesn't have. That's already enough to get you into the pt if you don't have other jobs leveled.

Fair enough.

But if you added proc, then the difference gets a LOT bigger. If you're not factoring proc, soloing KI NM on NIN is probably only 10~15% more efficient than BLU due to faster killing speed. If you're factoring red proc, soloing KI NM on NIN will be 3x more efficient than BLU in terms of time and money spent on pops. And that's just not acceptable. I can accept spending 10% more time on farming KI on BLU, but not 66% because of lack of WS. And that's what happen when this game rely on proc to make a job "special" and "useful".

You're talking about soloing though. A solo NIN is still not more effective than a party.

I do admit that zerging high lv NM is one aspect that BLU is absolutely shit and no where close to optimal result though. The only advantage it has but other DD doesn't have is just def down spell and AoE attack buff. And it's really hard to contribute in zerging situation. In that case I'd say nerfing heavy strike is really a bad decision. BLU doesn't need to deal as much dmg as 2h DD during zerging, but at least it should be able to contribute decent amount of dmg while having advantages other DDs doesn't have such as def down/aoe attack up spell, to make it replaceable but still able to contribute in it's own way. The point of of heavy strike is not to replace WAR DRK SAM for zerging, but if you want to play BLU or only have BLU, you can still contribute and able to get something done that WAR DRK SAM can't. Just like previous arguement about DRG v.s WAR, DRG is just fine for def down, but you don't need it and you can replace it with another Ukon WAR with more dmg. But if someone only has DRG or just want to play DRG, he can still contribute in a way WAR can't.

Agreed.

Lack of red/blue proc is also a difference you can't make up no matter what, and I really don't want another event that only certain jobs are allowed to play because they make a huge difference in terms of efficiency. Making a job useful because of proc really just make the game no fun at all tbh.

True.

When RDM was useful for everything, RDMs Q.Q about being forced to play as RDM healer and not allowed to play anything else. Now RDMs Q.Q about not having Cure V, which is just ironic. Trust me, if SE give BLU something omgwtf fantasitic irreplaceable and game changing, inc more Q.Q.

lolrdm.

[Afania]

Where noteworthy, can you evaluate your view on a Blue Mage fulfilling on those roles with the tools you've suggested at hand?

1. Healing - MP Efficient Cure 4.5 and Cure 5.5 Spells, coupled with an AoE Erase. In my opinion this put's BLU in the same bracket as DNC-Like support healing, and not enough for a BLU to fulfill that role effectively.

It get's better with a WHM support job, and -na spells. With /WHM this setup can easily allow a Blue Mage to effectively main heal most parties. For an alliance, more healers will be required for the other parties.

2. Enfeebling - A solid set of options. The issue here is whether the enfeebles will be required or outranked by NIN and RDM.

4. Hybrid - True it is quite situational.

5. Ranged - Sorry when I said Ranged Attack, I also meant to include nuking. Basically fighting from a distance.



In situations where you want noone in range of a HNM, yes.

Healer:IMO it can't replace WHM for anything serious. BLU cure spell generates too much enmity, I probably won't replace a WHM with a BLU for heroes T2 NM at lv 90 to cure spam MNK tank in duoing situations because of enmity. I also won't replace a WHM with a BLU for voidwatch. But BLU as healer works decently for easier content when you need some heal, and some dmg may help it get done faster. For example I sometimes trio Salvage (at lv 90)and I play BLU/WHM as a healer because I don't have RDM or WHM, and need other ppl on THF and DD. I can still keep ppl alive no problem, but when situation need fast dmg to zerg an NM down(such as BLM rat in AR), I can spell spam and zerg with everyone else, that's something WHM RDM can't do, BLU can also AoE sleep without relying on SJ, and it can be useful. Also I sometimes duo some easy Abyssea NM such as Audumbla with another BLU friend of mine, with COR/SAM+BLU/WHM setup. I zerg the NM down with Wildfire spam while he keeping me alive on BLU. He can deal dmg and B.typhoon for magic def down (it makes very noticeable difference on Wildfire dmg) on that NM and still able to keep me alive no problem. In the end I'd rather use BLU as a healer rather than WHM or RDM for this NM, since a BLU is enough to keep me alive, and it has ability to do magic def down debuff and do dmg on the same time for faster kills.

Enfeebling:
I rarely invite a debuffer in pt just for debuff. Since many jobs that cover other pt position can do it.
WHM NIN BLM DRK is not created to be debuff expert, but they also has debuff spells that can be useful in pt. While RDM isn't useful just because of debuff, refreshII and cure IV counts too, it is that other aspect of the job that add up together.
Personally I'd use RDM for most of the debuff, slow/para/bind/gravity/bio etc. But BLU still has some unique debuff no? Attack eva magic def down etc. I agree that most of the time you probably won't invite a BLU just for those unique debuff and not really needed, it's probably other advantage BLU has and combine with unique debuff to contribute to the pt.

Hybrid: See above. The above example is more like hybrid than one single role.

Ranged: Nuke dmg is no where near as good as BLM. Cannonball has it's unique advantage of enmity, but probably not as important nowadays since PLD has more hate tool now. Personally I wouldn't invite a BLU if I want ranged dmg, unless I can't get anyone else. However nowadays there are rarely, really rarely any NM that you can't get in the range at all. For most of the NM with AoE run in efflux QC do dmg back off is just fine. BLU can take hit with higher surviveability than other DD if you're well prepared, and it can self cure when taking hit and got out of AoE. Unless the NM has something as bad as AoE instant death or AoE charm, get into AoE isn't that bad.

Of course I admit I probably won't invite a BLU over SMN BLM RNG COR SCH for such situation no matter what, unless I got no one else. But BLU still has higher ranged dmg ability than MNK WAR etc.

Still, BLU has above average in terms of usefulness for every single situation besides zerging higher lv NM(Only zerging high lv NM is way below average). While specialists may be perfect for one situation, but below average usefulness for another. The reason why many ppl think BLU useless is because players got way too many jobs nowaday when you lv them so fast, gear them so fast. Otherwise BLU is just fine in terms of usefulness. If you want to look at other Q.Q jobs, look at DNC SCH DRK and RDM, they are in worse position than BLU(Although I'd still use RDM outside of Abby for refreshII). Personally I also Q.Q a lot about COR being useless for everything besides regain whore in Voidwatch as well. But BLU I'm happy with it, as long as I can get shit done with this job when I need to.

If there's anything that need improvement, it really just need a little boost for zerging high lv NMs. Then it'd be perfect.

[Prothscar]

Of course I admit I probably won't invite a BLU over SMN BLM RNG COR SCH for such situation no matter what, unless I got no one else. But BLU still has higher ranged dmg ability than MNK WAR etc.

Sorry to interject, but weren't you just talking about problems with enmity for BLU vs. WHM healing? We have the exact opposite issue with ranged damage. Sure you can only SATACA a cannonball every minute, but you can also use Regurgitation for an essentially free 500-600 damage which supplies 1CE 640VE no matter how much damage you do. You'll essentially never have to meter yourself in terms of MP or enmity, a large advantage over any of the other jobs above. Will you do as much damage in a short burst? No. But over time you could be comparable while still sustaining other types of damage or other roles if necessary.

[Tashan]

Still, BLU has above average in terms of usefulness for every single situation besides zerging higher lv NM(Only zerging high lv NM is way below average). While specialists may be perfect for one situation, but below average usefulness for another. The reason why many ppl think BLU useless is because players got way too many jobs nowaday when you lv them so fast, gear them so fast. Otherwise BLU is just fine in terms of usefulness. If you want to look at other Q.Q jobs, look at DNC SCH DRK and RDM, they are in worse position than BLU(Although I'd still use RDM outside of Abby for refreshII). Personally I also Q.Q a lot about COR being useless for everything besides regain whore in Voidwatch as well. But BLU I'm happy with it, as long as I can get shit done with this job when I need to.

If there's anything that need improvement, it really just need a little boost for zerging high lv NMs. Then it'd be perfect.

You've pretty much answered it but my final question is, "Do you feel that with the tools a BLU has to satisfy different roles it is well-developed as a hybrid?"

Sorry to interject, but weren't you just talking about problems with enmity for BLU vs. WHM healing? We have the exact opposite issue with ranged damage. Sure you can only SATACA a cannonball every minute, but you can also use Regurgitation for an essentially free 500-600 damage which supplies 1CE 640VE no matter how much damage you do. You'll essentially never have to meter yourself in terms of MP or enmity, a large advantage over any of the other jobs above. Will you do as much damage in a short burst? No. But over time you could be comparable while still sustaining other types of damage or other roles if necessary.

In her defense she's not really suggesting that emnity control is the reason for choosing a job, but just that's a disadvantage it has in comparison to WHM.

[Darkvalkyr]

I dunno. With my tanks I can just throw magic fruit like no tomorrow without getting hate. Maybe I just wear enough enmity- gear? *shrug*

On top of that, if I do ever get hate BLU has enough survivability to last longer than most mages anyway.

[Tashan]

DV you are so win for giving props to Camate like that.

Nice one.

[Afania]

You've pretty much answered it but my final question is, "Do you feel that with the tools a BLU has to satisfy different roles it is well-developed as a hybrid?"

I think the crowd control tool worked pretty well, unique debuff is ok too(but not needed most of the time). Everything else I'd say no XD.

Especially the fact that BLU cure can't cure alliance members killed it's use as a real healer.

[Darkvalkyr]

I got quoted by Camate. #Achievementunlocked.