Beastmaster's MOST pressing matter

[Feynman]

I didn't miss any point, I voiced the opposition. You can go out and charm as much as you want on bst, but it still doesn't have a place anymore other then random non-abyssea XP in some dank hole.

This is the point I think you are missing. We agree that charm doesn't have a place in abyssea or other new content. We are asking why this new content was designed in such as way that our basic ability was totally negated.

All of you so easily dismiss my claims as nothing, but don't even try to show where charm would be viable in any of the game's content. All you're saing is "I want thint this" without even concidering why. The game has changed and there's no real point in this JA anymore other then screwing around on things that don't matter.

I never dismissed your claims. In fact I agree; charm has no place in most of the new content. The point is that we believe that it should! The new content should not have been designed so that one particular job cannot use their defining job ability. In my case "I want this" because to me it is what being BST is about. The ability to take otherwise aggressive and dangerous monsters and force them to do your bidding. Of course the game will change. But the feeling of having your job systematically restructured into something that you, and many others, are not happy with is a very different thing. Some of the basic things I have used charm to "screw around" with. Experience/leveling, nation's missions, ZM, CoP, ToAU, WotG, the add on scenarios, you know...pretty much everything except the new content where I am not allowed to use charm.

Your mistaking nostalgia with necessity. Nostolgia from a time when bst was forced into a roll that it didn't even have to be by people who couldn't understand the job in the first place.

Necessity? There is no necessity to the existence of the entire game. It is here for entertainment. When something you have put a lot of time and effort into is being changed into something that you would rather it not change into, it can be a bit upsetting. What role do you think BST was forced into? The soloist I assume is what you mean. BST's ability to solo is the reason I chose the job. I was never forced into it. I recognized the strengths of the job in the solo arena and picked it for those strengths.

[Caketime]

Your mistaking nostalgia with necessity. Nostolgia from a time when bst was forced into a roll that it didn't even have to be by people who couldn't understand the job in the first place.

I'm curious about your opinion of the job's Role, you keep insisting that nobody understands the job like you do, so please explain? Enlighten me with your wisdom. Last time you just said that people need to learn how to group, is that it? You're making all kinds of mixed signals about this, almost to the point of complete contradiction. A poor Troll argues himself into a corner.

[Jile]

I do miss using charm but at this point it might be easier to just rename us to Jugmaster's rather than make mobs charmable lol >.<;

[Feynman]

Jugmasters! Lol that is sadly the way it plays now!

[Gotterdammerung]

I've said b4 that i am ok with the move away from charm, only because i understand charm would eventually become irreparably unbalanced.

But i think that IF they want to move completely away from charm in endgame content, then they need to do serious work to replace it with call beast.

It isn't really cool to say CB replaces charm. Because atm with CB we have:

limited monster families at our disposal (with charm we had the pleasure and freedom to enjoy many different types of pets) I think EVERY BST, misses certain pets. And this recent Failvote showed just how strongly BSTs feel about lvl 99 jug selection. Everyone kept asking the same question, "why can't we have most of these options?"
And that is a good question. If CB is supposed to replace charm, then it needs to be able to choose pets from a large list of families (especially when you factor in the whole monster affinity system that is supposed to be closely tied to our job, and the merit skill "killer instinct"), and many bsts miss their favorite friends. I know i miss opo-opo's and krakens and slimes and courrier carrie and life drinker lars and crawlers and hecteyes and dhalmels (just a few of the favorite pets i had the pleasure of partnering with on my journey to 95.)

limited pet TP moves (wild charm pets had access to all of their TP moves and there was more variety of families to charm wich meant a much larger Pet TP sample size.)

I think if they really want to be serious about replacing charm with CB they need to at least work to make CB better in these 2 aspects.

Also, they need to find some way to make charm useful when its unavailable. I think simply fixing the bind to be more accurate and usable on all things plus a little boost to its enmity would be perfect.

And they need to add a use for chr.

[Calamity]

The one thing I would add to Gotter's statement, and honestly this could even be the reason behind SE's current direction with bst, is the call beast timer does somewhat limit what we can solo. Many bsts remember the days of soloing or even teaming up with other bsts by literally throwing charmed pets at the mob in a continuous stream, and even in abyssea, the same tactic could be used to solo some powerful mobs, where call beast limits us by our timer. Reward works well to keep our pets alive, but even that has a timer to worry about. I suppose that may be why they introduced dawn mulsums, but honestly, that's like taxing a bst to imitate something we used to be able to do for free.

If charm isn't coming back, I feel we should at least be granted relaxed timers on some of our abilities to compensate.

[Xilk]

The one thing I would add to Gotter's statement, and honestly this could even be the reason behind SE's current direction with bst, is the call beast timer does somewhat limit what we can solo. Many bsts remember the days of soloing or even teaming up with other bsts by literally throwing charmed pets at the mob in a continuous stream, and even in abyssea, the same tactic could be used to solo some powerful mobs, where call beast limits us by our timer. Reward works well to keep our pets alive, but even that has a timer to worry about. I suppose that may be why they introduced dawn mulsums, but honestly, that's like taxing a bst to imitate something we used to be able to do for free.

If charm isn't coming back, I feel we should at least be granted relaxed timers on some of our abilities to compensate.

Yes, Monsters INc took down Rani a few times like this back in Dec/Jan. (before any of us had 200k brews)

Although we mostly use bst to tank on rani, while the smn coordinate their Bloodpact. Likewise w/ Hahava... and most NM's can be done this way.

[Visari]

Yes, Monsters INc took down Rani a few times like this back in Dec/Jan. (before any of us had 200k brews)

Although we mostly use bst to tank on rani, while the smn coordinate their Bloodpact. Likewise w/ Hahava... and most NM's can be done this way.

Ahhh those were some good times ^^

[Glamdring]

The very life and death of our job is at hand. No matter how many times its been mentioned, it needs to be once more, and kept in the spot light and top of our request priorities!

Beastmasters need up coming content to involve the acutal job itself, which is the ability to charm monsters. So lets remind SE again, and how many ever times it takes that beastmasters need new high level pets, not just pets but pets IN areas which there is a use for them, AND said use to actually be not worthless meaning we want to use charmed pets in most if not all the new content to come, and for things like voidwatch.

No matter how it is spun, twisted and turned, warped or altered, half decent jug pets are not a solid viable alternative or replacement for charmed pets and is nothing more than it has always been, a expensive, usualy quick to die, weak emergency replacment for a charmed pet.

If the beastmaster community's requests are not met on this issue, the "real" joy of playing the job itself will be lost forever.

Now is the time for bst's to band together full force on this issue when it counts the most, because now is the time window of posibility for the future of bst to be made right.

Little overly dramatic there man...

Yes, charm needs to become a meaningful part of our arsenal again. However, are you forgetting your old days on beast? There was plenty of content we were shut out of, with or without jugs for most of the history of the job. As I said in the "which jug?" thread, anything that was magic ot TP spam happy was a weakness for us. We had such a rep as soloers that even if we wanted to help or needed help ourselves we were often told to "go solo it"... which couldn't always be done.

So yes, Voidwatch and WoE are out as far as charming, as Aby has always been, many of the BCNMs, many assaults, even most campaign and all beseiged. That's why SE threw us a bone with jugs in the 1st place. Now that they finally made jugs tough enough to be a semi-viable alternative to charmed pets-at least on their regular attacks if not their specials-I've personally seen us getting some party love. I've actually been ASKED to come beast, despite having multiple alternatives.

The fact is, there are multiple things that can be done now, and if you didn't notice in the update, none of them were put into Abyssea. GoV is tailor-made for beast. As a pup as well I can tell you you could get alot of love just farming pup attachments and throwing them on the AH, and that's not all there is. Beast has always been a farming machine, in some ways even better than thief (yes, I have a 90 thief, I know what I speak of here), and higher-end prey has been added to areas where we can charm, even without our AF/Relic/+charm set.

Here's the deal, no 1 job is able to handle all types of battles, never have been, never will. Have you ever heard the term "pick your battles"? That's really the heart of playing beast. Do they need to expand options for us to charm and fight again? Of course. However, that seems to be exactly the course they are on. With or without pages there is plenty of stuff we can do in charming areas, and there's another lvl-cap to come that will in all likelyhood expand that. Our jugs being up there means that we can make valuable contributions in the non-charm areas, too. Have you ever seen what a bst can do in WoE?! We destroy the place! And that's a jug fight. Pet spam is also a viable tactic in Voidwatch on many fights. The BCNM-type battles have always been a mixed bag of "charm here, jug there", so that's not really a change for us.

[Granny]

Little overly dramatic there man...

Yes, charm needs to become a meaningful part of our arsenal again. However, are you forgetting your old days on beast? There was plenty of content we were shut out of, with or without jugs for most of the history of the job. As I said in the "which jug?" thread, anything that was magic ot TP spam happy was a weakness for us. We had such a rep as soloers that even if we wanted to help or needed help ourselves we were often told to "go solo it"... which couldn't always be done.

So yes, Voidwatch and WoE are out as far as charming, as Aby has always been, many of the BCNMs, many assaults, even most campaign and all beseiged. That's why SE threw us a bone with jugs in the 1st place. Now that they finally made jugs tough enough to be a semi-viable alternative to charmed pets-at least on their regular attacks if not their specials-I've personally seen us getting some party love. I've actually been ASKED to come beast, despite having multiple alternatives.

The fact is, there are multiple things that can be done now, and if you didn't notice in the update, none of them were put into Abyssea. GoV is tailor-made for beast. As a pup as well I can tell you you could get alot of love just farming pup attachments and throwing them on the AH, and that's not all there is. Beast has always been a farming machine, in some ways even better than thief (yes, I have a 90 thief, I know what I speak of here), and higher-end prey has been added to areas where we can charm, even without our AF/Relic/+charm set.

Here's the deal, no 1 job is able to handle all types of battles, never have been, never will. Have you ever heard the term "pick your battles"? That's really the heart of playing beast. Do they need to expand options for us to charm and fight again? Of course. However, that seems to be exactly the course they are on. With or without pages there is plenty of stuff we can do in charming areas, and there's another lvl-cap to come that will in all likelyhood expand that. Our jugs being up there means that we can make valuable contributions in the non-charm areas, too. Have you ever seen what a bst can do in WoE?! We destroy the place! And that's a jug fight. Pet spam is also a viable tactic in Voidwatch on many fights. The BCNM-type battles have always been a mixed bag of "charm here, jug there", so that's not really a change for us.

The only thing that came to mind after reading that was why did you even bother.
Your pro bst right? ... lol

Ya bst jugs are actually "useable" now, but in no way even come close to being a viable alternative to charm as it currently stands. GoV is crap, who cares about charming for that? Pet spam for Voidwatch... you know about the job beastmaster right...? Did you just get charm and call beast mixed up...

Once again, you are after beast becoming improved from its current state right...?