[Soap Box] {Lock On} & general charity shouts

[Toggles]

stuff (sorry for the snip)

Okay so first off I actually agree with or don't have a problem with most of the things you said.

A couple things:

I have never seen a mercenary group randomly pick a monster, go out, outclaim other people, and then laugh at them as they ask for money or to let the item drop. While this may happen it's not the norm.

I have. It didn't happen to me personally but I've seen it happen more than once. It was a pretty cr*p thing to watch.

I agree when you say it's not the norm but it sure must have been 'norm' enough for the poor people I saw get shafted. Maybe there was more to it, maybe not, idk but nevertheless it exists. Let's not forget that 1 out of 100,000 is still 100% to the 1 person out of every 100,000.

There's absolutely nothing wrong, disgusting, or immoral about our transaction.

You're fighting the mob because you guys need something. There's nothing wrong with that. Making someone else pay for an item that would otherwise 'drop into the abyss' just because you don't know them is, well... it's definitely not 'nice', that's for sure.

I'm not talking about that in the OP, though. It's a gray area I don't care to get into, both sides have valid points.

The 'immoral' I was speaking about(before I got derailed by others) was falsely creating a market for said R/Ex item. inb4 poidh

In before "rare/ex means you need to work for it!!!!"

lol

They never said we couldn't sell rare/ex.

I agree. But as I said to GG(I think), it's pretty obvious that they never intended for R/Ex to be sold... another grey area.

It's like saying "if I can climb the fence then it's okay for me to be in there". Logicically we know the purpose of a fence as we do the purpose of a R/Ex tag. If we can't agree on this then there's no further discussion for the two of us to have.

I'm honestly surprised people are so offended by having other people lotting on the same item as you. Back in the day monsters we would farm would have very very poor drop rates, and everyone was after the same thing. Now that monsters drop up to 4 different kinds of seals, people feel entitled to one of them. I have no qualms with everyone locking in a job/item, but sometimes people have to share to get the necessary job or help in.

This is the big one I wanted to address, mainly the earlier parts of it. Yeah, I was there when you'd have an alliance going into EN and the second someone finally got their paper they magically had some pressing matter that they needed to attend. Thing is, if I wanted to be playing that kind of game after all these years... well, I wouldn't want to be, period.

Now onto the correction I have to make of that quote in regards to my OP. I'm not offended by lotting against others in equality, never said I was.

Here's what I'm 'offended' about(remember, this is a package deal):

Shouter gets guaranteed lots
NM takes no prep work -or- equal prep work is not present
Everyone else who fought equally as hard are FLing for drops for which there are not enough of for all

Now this may not be a common occurrence on your server. From my experience on my server, however, it is.

Where does it end? Selling atmas? Selling boss clears? Because I've seen both of those and that's just jerk s**t right there. I'm not talking about "I'll pay you to get me an atma", I'm talking about group of 8-10 people killing w/e boss and won't invite you for clear unless you pay. They lose nothing from you joining...

[ceown]

To get this on topic.

Before SE decided they didn't want me playing more I saw these all over Phoenix as well.. I figured the stupidity was limited to just the cut throat gil focused nature of all the players selling anything they could get their hands on including their grandmother.

Good to know it transcends all the servers.

[Meyi]

Where does it end? Selling atmas? Selling boss clears? Because I've seen both of those and that's just jerk s**t right there. I'm not talking about "I'll pay you to get me an atma", I'm talking about group of 8-10 people killing w/e boss and won't invite you for clear unless you pay. They lose nothing from you joining...

Ah, as I said before, people can sell whatever they want to sell... if they have an audience to sell to. If you feel this is corrupt then make your own shout to go do it instead. The beautiful thing about Abyssea is that many of the monsters respawn rather quickly (???s included).

[Vortex]

Where does it end? Selling atmas? Selling boss clears? Because I've seen both of those and that's just jerk s**t right there. I'm not talking about "I'll pay you to get me an atma", I'm talking about group of 8-10 people killing w/e boss and won't invite you for clear unless you pay. They lose nothing from you joining...

It's called Greed, it's very common in FFXI and pretty much any online community that involves money and people. people like that love to take advantage of you in order to make money.

a Fool and his money, some people will pay for anything if they don't have to work for it. i'v know many people who just sit in jueno or whitegate and just shouted for everything to wanted to buy. could swear they don't even leave the area unless to go buy it.

[Morier]

Who cares if people buy gear? Is it wrong to go buy fast food instead of cooking at home? I swear the crap people take a stance on these days amazes me.

[Tamoa]

Where does it end? Selling atmas? Selling boss clears? Because I've seen both of those and that's just jerk s**t right there. I'm not talking about "I'll pay you to get me an atma", I'm talking about group of 8-10 people killing w/e boss and won't invite you for clear unless you pay. They lose nothing from you joining...

People wouldn't do that if other people weren't willing to pay for it.

No idea why you get so worked up over this. Does it affect you in any way if someone is shouting in Port Jeuno offering boss win/atma/whatever for a price?

A couple of things irks me: one is when someone is shouting for people for a seal NM, and has themself as only lotter on the seal they want, then everything else is 0/2. And in those cases where people join a seal NM shout group where you have to buy a somewhat expensive pop item/set, and it turns out they never did but still lot on seals.

However, none of these more or less dumb shouts mentioned throughout this thread really bother me. I'll never understand why people feel need need to start a bitchfest in shouts because of it. If you don't like the deal, don't take it. Don't join these shout groups.

Edit (still waking up, sorry):

I'm talking about group of 8-10 people killing w/e boss and won't invite you for clear unless you pay

I have to say I have never heard of that happening, at least on my server. Whenever I've been doing a zone boss for w/e reason, and someone is there asking for win, I've invited them np, and I don't know anyone who's charged the person needing the win before inviting them. Agreeing with that part, if someone is standing there @ pop spot asking to join for win only, and get told they need to pay, that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

[Shiyo]

A couple of things irks me: one is when someone is shouting for people for a seal NM, and has themself as only lotter on the seal they want, then everything else is 0/2.

What seal NM inside abyssea requires 7 people to begin with?

[Tamoa]

What seal NM inside abyssea requires 7 people to begin with?

You know the answer to that, all I'm saying is I see these shouts and they make me facepalm.

[Modoru]

Technically, you're not selling the atma/item.

You're selling the chance at it, with [usually] a pre-obtained pop set that would otherwise take the buyer a long time to achieve.

Sure, I'm not okay with it [who the hell tries to market 100% R/E drops?], but people find even the weirdest ways to make money.

[Zagen]

You're selling the chance at it, with [usually] a pre-obtained pop set that would otherwise take the buyer a long time to achieve.

A good merc group will charge you only if the item drops. I know some who charge up front but return the gil if it doesn't drop, anyways the point is if you're paying just for a chance that's a deal just as bad as locking multiple/all the good items before getting others for +1/2 items.