Hvergelmir WTF SE

[Economizer]

Nirvana was made for the melee SMN in mind, not Hvergelmir. Hvergelmir is a toy

I disagree. Hvergelmir is not a toy. Both staves are useful for melee Summoner, although they have vastly different play styles. Something every super staff has had that is useful for Summoner is MP regeneration or preservation. To dismiss it is kinda crappy.

[Dallas]

you'll need to use spirit taker

Spirit Taker = lost aftermath

Without aftermath, Nirvana is a big old bowl of soggy fail flakes.

[Korpg]

I disagree. Hvergelmir is not a toy. Both staves are useful for melee Summoner, although they have vastly different play styles. Something every super staff has had that is useful for Summoner is MP regeneration or preservation. To dismiss it is kinda crappy.

Hvergelmir only gives the player any additional buff. Sure, you can recover a lot of MP quickly if you manage to save 300% TP, but in the age where MP isn't an issue, even outside of Abyssea, MP recovery isn't all that great.

Nirvana not only gives the player an additional buff, it also requires less accuracy gear to actually hit anything outside of Abyssea, gives a huge boost of damage both inside and outside of Abyssea, and the aftermath affects both player and avatar. The only downside of Nirvana is that the WS of choice doesn't do much damage. But it still does more damage than Myrkr. And you don't have to save up to 300% TP to get the full effect of the aftermath.

– [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

I doubt you even blacklisted me anyway. Otherwise, you wouldn't even acknowledge my existence. Which it seems like you do every chance you get.

[Economizer]

Hvergelmir only gives the player any additional buff.

Naturally, Nirvana should be better, considering the effort, but ultimately, it doesn't make Hvergelmir a toy, or worthless, just like Hvergelmir doesn't make Nirvana worthless.

[Leonlionheart]

is this seriously turning into hvergelmir vs nirvana?

nirvana shits all over hvergelmir in every way

[Korpg]

Naturally, Nirvana should be better, considering the effort, but ultimately, it doesn't make Hvergelmir a toy, or worthless, just like Hvergelmir doesn't make Nirvana worthless.

Give me one good situation where whacking a mob as a melee SMN is a good idea. Where it is more preferable to bring a melee SMN than any other melee.

Trash mobs don't count because that isn't a good situation. Anyone can melee on level 50 mobs.

[Pyrobunny]

i just got mine i hit the shit out of everything NM or low lvl rabbit idc.
its alot bettter that sitting there waiting for the BP timer to go down

also with the +2 gloves i cap on perp cost no matter what staff i use.
so why not have a little fun and smack the shit out of IC or some other outside abyssea NM.

but there is a time and place for everything i'm not about to run in and start swinging on a raja/rani or one of the 3 wyrm...well i might swing at one of the wyrm.
and same with outside abyssea i'm not about to melee on a king behe

i'll still melee sky NM tho its always fun.

as for a nirvana id sell your pet dog to a resturant if it ment i could get my hands on it.
i mean ive only seen one nirvana ever.

[Pyrobunny]

i will say it would be hot to have a regain or let pets get aftermath on it tho
aftermath to pets would be cool on the other pet jobs also

[Razushu]

However, I strongly, strongly disagree with your stance of empy being "nothing more than a toy." The one thing nirvana doesn't do is give you unlimited MP, since it's really unlikely that you even need the full amount of perp cost that nirvana gives. Yes, nirvana will give you a better damage output overall, that's for sure. But, you can't Garland every WS because you'll need to use spirit taker, and that means not getting the aftermath all the time; and garland is pretty weak, weaker than Cataclysm even, though the def. down does give it an edge.

In the places where I most use the staff (e.g. abyssea soloing), accuracy is not an issue.

You don't need Hvergelmir for unlimited MP, just like you don't need Nirvana to cap -perp. Without either of these I have unlimited MP with just my prep/refresh set, Siphon and /SCH, and I've only run out of MP once since 80cap. That being said were I to be in possession of a Nirvana I could Garland every WS and still be fine for MP(as I am now). Getting -7 perp on a single piece wouldn't be nessecary for capping -perp, but it would be beneficial for capping it in the least amount of slots, for instance with my current set I get +3 MP back per tick, if I got Nirvana I could ditch my Caller's Pigaches +2 from my -perp set and full time the serpentes set giving me another +1MP per tick(not really needed, but sure would be nice).

[Alhanelem]

but it would be beneficial for capping it in the least amount of slots

The thing is, you don't need to reduce the number of slots with perp. Perp minus (and/or refresh) exists on a lot of gear you would still have a use for anyway even if it didn't have the perp -.

Also, I don't normally use /sch for various reasons, including need of an ability to have status cures, switching back and forth to use aspir is a hassle and I don't really need it anyway, /SCH doesn't have cure IV and cure III is just totally inadequate these days.

Though one thing I hope people get out of this discussion is how little we need healing MP kits anymore