SE, Please Delete Scarlet Delirium

[Return1]

Few things to address in this thread.

1) No one said Torcleaver was a shit WS, we're saying the GS is a shit sword because the delay means the WSs come slower due to needing more hits to 100tp.

2) Apocalypse is the best Damage option in the game for DRK right now, and the next magian boost will make it comparable to other job's EMPs if the boost is as significant as before.

3) DRK accuracy problems weren't real, it was just players were stupid in the past when it came to exp mobs and tp/ws gear, especially on DRK because it attracted idiots because it looked cool. DRK was not better off than MNK or SAM though.

MNK wasn't liked at first because of Distortion, stupid reason but true, and then it got to open Distortion in the 60s. They could also close light, the most popular SC 65+. MNK was valued on old HNMs because of Chi Blast rotations. The game slowly turned towards TP burn and people realized MNK was extremely, if not the most, powerful.

SAM could make Distortion as opener or closer with its starting WS, and it's starting WS was powerful. SAM was more popular than DRK on HNMs for SATA lines because they could Meditate and SATA, making them especially good for kited fights. SAM could also easily make Darkness or Light. SAM was never really disliked. TP burning didn't really hurt sam at all, what with the massive TP building ability and all.

DRK actually suffered from TP burns, barring SE zerg fights. DRK had always been the slowest at tp gain in that era. There was never one real reason to invite DRK outside of SE zergs because they were so slow and pretty useless. DRK WSes sucked, they had no JA to boost tp gain, LR was complete garbage and until recently was mostly garbage, and SE would mean less mp efficiency for healing the party. The DB + 3minute LR combo has now put DRK on decent footing with other DDs outside abyssea until you get to superbuffed situations.

4) The idea behind SD is sound, but the execution sucks. We don't need 3 minutes to get hit once and then 1 minute of boosted damage, thet's fucking stupid. If the effect can't be based off of cumulative damage over the course of a minute, make it record damage for 1 minute, then take the highest damage over that period, and give us a boost for 3 minutes. A 1 minute damage boost is a failure in ability design, especially with the current system. Also SD is a good tanking tool as is if they'd give it a longer duration. There are times when you can't stun/Stop TP moves: Stun Resistance, TP move charge speed, repeated attempts, etc. That's a situation where this TP move is awesome.

Need examples of when SD's effect would be awesome if it lasted 3 minutes of damage boost?

Throat Stab from tonberry nms, Pile Pitch, Homing Missile, Citadel Buster, almost anytime lolkirin is looking at you, Gravic Horn, Impalement, etc. There are tons of moves that are easily predictable but almost impossible to avoid, where it's a good idea to pop SD for a damage boost.

5) For the love of god make all physical WSes capable of Critical hits ffs.

[Leonlionheart]

@ Return1

At the moment, Caladbolg90 beats Apocalypse90 in overall DPS. Apoc just gets to drain some HP.

Caladbolg (delay 430): 7 hits to 100, 10.01
Apocalypse (delay 513) 5 hits to 100, 8.5 seconds before WS delay

ODD proc on Cala: 30% (100% TP)
ODD proc on Apoc: ~10%

Average Torcleaver: 2500
Average Catastrophe: ~1500

Pretty easy to figure out the rest. Caladbolg wins DPS wise, even though Apoc is WSing ~15% faster. DA and TA skew the TP phase into Caladbolg's favor, as Cala has a much smaller rate of over TP w/ DA and TA compared to a 5hit build, and you're dealing more damage simply because Torcleaver is awesome then you add on 20% more ODD hits. Apoc obviously wins where accuracy is needed, and obviously wins in overall use (Drain w/ stupid fast WS's allows for a nearly invincible player, not to mention aftermath is a flash potency blind)

[Return1]

@ Return1

At the moment, Caladbolg90 beats Apocalypse90 in overall DPS. Apoc just gets to drain some HP.

Caladbolg (delay 430): 7 hits to 100, 10.01
Apocalypse (delay 513) 5 hits to 100, 8.5 seconds before WS delay

ODD proc on Cala: 30% (100% TP)
ODD proc on Apoc: ~10%

Average Torcleaver: 2500
Average Catastrophe: ~1500

Pretty easy to figure out the rest. Caladbolg wins DPS wise, even though Apoc is WSing ~15% faster. DA and TA skew the TP phase into Caladbolg's favor, as Cala has a much smaller rate of over TP w/ DA and TA compared to a 5hit build, and you're dealing more damage simply because Torcleaver is awesome then you add on 20% more ODD hits. Apoc obviously wins where accuracy is needed, and obviously wins in overall use (Drain w/ stupid fast WS's allows for a nearly invincible player, not to mention aftermath is a flash potency blind)

Sorry to burst your bubble but you got a few things wrong.

You're counting the 7 hit and 5 hits from a 0tp standing point, but for the most part you only need 6 hits for the 7 hit and 4 for the 5 hit because you're getting to 100tp after WS, so it's 4 swings vs 6 swings, so Apocalypse WSes ~25% faster.

If you're only managing 1500 on Catastrophe it's time to rethink your gear. You're averages are way off. If we figured the 1.25 damage multiplier as an fTP boost, which is weaker than the straight 1.25 multiplier, Torcleaver is only ahead by ~34%, much less than your awful ~66% guess. On top of that, you need to consider Apoc has superior WSC mods, 20 base damage, and 3 fSTR on Caladbolg/Torcleaver. In the end, Apoc leads in WS Damage over time.

The ~20% ODD damage is somewhat offset by the ACC/ATK/STR/etc advantage that comes with Apocalypse/Catastrophe, and the Self SC ability of Apocalypse also serves to push it ahead on anything that can survive that long.

The DA/TA overspill doesn't skew the results as much as you think it does.

[Cljader1]

Sorry to burst your bubble but you got a few things wrong.

You're counting the 7 hit and 5 hits from a 0tp standing point, but for the most part you only need 6 hits for the 7 hit and 4 for the 5 hit because you're getting to 100tp after WS, so it's 4 swings vs 6 swings, so Apocalypse WSes ~25% faster.

If you're only managing 1500 on Catastrophe it's time to rethink your gear. You're averages are way off. If we figured the 1.25 damage multiplier as an fTP boost, which is weaker than the straight 1.25 multiplier, Torcleaver is only ahead by ~34%, much less than your awful ~66% guess. On top of that, you need to consider Apoc has superior WSC mods, 20 base damage, and 3 fSTR on Caladbolg/Torcleaver. In the end, Apoc leads in WS Damage over time.

The ~20% ODD damage is somewhat offset by the ACC/ATK/STR/etc advantage that comes with Apocalypse/Catastrophe, and the Self SC ability of Apocalypse also serves to push it ahead on anything that can survive that long.

The DA/TA overspill doesn't skew the results as much as you think it does.

This is yet another Detial

[Soidisant]

On paper at least 90 Calad beats 90 Apoc. That should change at 95 if Cata gets any sort of damage boost. Apoc is the better all around weapon imo though due to increased versatility/survivability.

More on topic. I don't want SD to be deleted. I just want the damage taking part of it to be tweaked. An overall duration increase would be nice but I'd settle just for a better recording mechanism for taking damage atm. Duration/potency can be improved at a later date if its still underwhelming possibly with gear and/or a new merit system.

[Dirtyfinger]

You can't delete something that's not even in the game yet. There's a dedicated sub forum for ideas on how to improve things that are in the test server. The OP's original post is just pure non productive nonsense, and 95% of the replies followed the same path.

If I was a SE representative I wouldn't bother reading any of it for players opinions on how it could be improved, as there's basically nothing to make any real positive suggestions (There may be a few, I'm sorry if I haven't seen through all the tripe).

Edit: This isn't directed at anyone in particular.. well maybe the OP

[Cljader1]

You can't delete something that's not even in the game yet. There's a dedicated sub forum for ideas on how to improve things that are in the test server. The OP's original post is just pure non productive nonsense, and 95% of the replies followed the same path.

If I was a SE representative I wouldn't bother reading any of it for players opinions on how it could be improved, as there's basically nothing to make any real positive suggestions (There may be a few, I'm sorry if I haven't seen through all the tripe).

Edit: This isn't directed at anyone in particular.. well maybe the OP

Why are you so angry at drk's, when we are expressing our displeasure about the crappiest shitty JA I have EVER seen implemented in this game "Scarlet Delirium." A ability that requires you to nearly kill yourself with a single mob attack so you can have a 60 sec damage boost. While your damn near dead, SE aspects us to go to town on the mob, why the hell would you swing your caladbolg at the mob while your hp is in the red? with increased damage at that? that something your alliance may kick you for

[Kristal]

I'm been reading this thread and the other one, and I can't understand why DRKs are railing against this so much.

1. It's a 3 minute recast ability that's up for 3 minutes (not 1 min). So it's up all the time if you bother to reapply it, although it's better to wait to use it just before a big aoe.
2. Whenever damage is taken, it grants a bonus to attack and magic attack based on HP lost by that attack.
3. Damage bonus lasts until buff expires/reapplies (so up to 3 minutes) or the next damage taken.

Now, I don't know the damage formula, but let's assume half of HP% lost is added to attack since [CR]Bayohne said it was much higher then 20%.. So if you lose 50% HP by an aoe attack, you get a 25% bonus to attack and damage. Get hit with a HP=1 attack while at 100% HP (Tarsal Slam by Resheph for instance) you get 50% bonus. For up to 3 minutes, as long as you don't get hit by another (weaker) aoe attack.

Seriously, it's a pretty decent JA. Devs actually thought this one through. Unlike Cooldown...

[StingRay104]

I'm been reading this thread and the other one, and I can't understand why DRKs are railing against this so much.

1. It's a 3 minute recast ability that's up for 3 minutes (not 1 min). So it's up all the time if you bother to reapply it, although it's better to wait to use it just before a big aoe.
2. Whenever damage is taken, it grants a bonus to attack and magic attack based on HP lost by that attack.
3. Damage bonus lasts until buff expires/reapplies (so up to 3 minutes) or the next damage taken.

Now, I don't know the damage formula, but let's assume half of HP% lost is added to attack since [CR]Bayohne said it was much higher then 20%.. So if you lose 50% HP by an aoe attack, you get a 25% bonus to attack and damage. Get hit with a HP=1 attack while at 100% HP (Tarsal Slam by Resheph for instance) you get 50% bonus. For up to 3 minutes, as long as you don't get hit by another (weaker) aoe attack.

Seriously, it's a pretty decent JA. Devs actually thought this one through. Unlike Cooldown...

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Sorry to ruin your day but the increase of 3 mins was only added to the absorb phase, of which it then changes from a def icon to an attack icon and this one only lasts for 1 min. Also the damage to hp conversion is based on the first hit to land on the DRK after the ability is activated, be it a nice 1500 damage aoe or a 1 damage mistake (which the mistake is gonna acount for 90% of the actual damage we will probably get considering even if we DRKs don't stun the big moves some one else will) and thus we would be sitting there with a .25% increase in damage seeing as we didn't even lose 1% hp (going off your example numbers real numbers of course would be different). This ability isn't nice in the least bit and expect many of the other posters on here to crucify you for your ignorant post.

[Return1]

People think SD works in ways it doesn't that's why they're hating on the complainers. If they had any idea how it worked, or how absolutely retarded the 3 minute absorb phase was changed, they'd probably stfu and agree that it needs a lot of real work.