who got bill today by C&B

[Greatguardian]

Whoa whoa whoa now.

Insinuations that I "smoked my way through college"? Anti-corporatism? Tinfoil hats? People still think I care about my personal $2.05?

There is some major wooshing and major conclusion-jumping going on up in here.

Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, corporate expenses are not simply a matter of "This is what we get every month" versus "this is what we pay every month, every time". Sometimes, corporations need cash now. Right now. Sometimes they make big bucks by being able to invest more, earlier, or by being able to make a large purchase sooner. Other times, especially in the case of Square Enix, it can help artificially inflate a company's portfolio in order to make it look more powerful than it is.

Korpg, you're also making a fairly poor comparison between an MMO and standard goods and services. On an individual level, a single product has a production cost and a price. A service also has a cost to the provider, and a price. An MMO does not cost (significantly) more with 500,000 customers than it does with 450,000 customers. There is little to no cost to the provider for the additional 50,000 "Accounts". Just because they are providing us with two months of service, does not mean they are attributing a cost to themselves for doing so. MMOs are extremely high profit margin ventures. They're not cutting into their operating cost in the future, they're just rearranging their profits in a way that is more beneficial to them.

As long as Korpg is pulling multiple RL cards on me, I'd like to know what he majored in in college (and how long ago that was). I'll be straight up, I'm pursuing a BoS in comp sci with a minor in business administration. Both of my parents have Ph.Ds in Accounting, so I'm pretty much inundated with finance at home. Is my understanding of everything finance ever perfect? By no means. But I really don't see how any of that has to do with Click and Buy's god damn United States phone support number.

Leave it to insert-jackass-here to shit up an entire thread with a one line nitpick over stupid crap.

[TybudX]

Crysta has basically no other use other than paying for their service, at least at the present time.

Once again, a big ol' woosh.

Also:

...it's also being used to buy security tokens, additional characters, will eventually be used for FFXIV if they ever start charging for it, and will be used for other services in the future.

It's funny how you made that the basis of one of your arguments in the past.

edit - Getting scooped by GG while looking up old quote. Dude, I think the signals in our hats are getting mixed up.

[Vitus]

Got first bill from C&B and they charged extra for "international transaction fee". This is messed up.

[Korpg]

Insinuations that I "smoked my way through college"?

I was not referring to you.

Anti-corporatism?

Yeah, that's you, at least your arguments.

Tinfoil hats?

Not you again. Jeez, you think everything I type is about you?

People still think I care about my personal $2.05?

That is your argument.

There is some major wooshing and major conclusion-jumping going on up in here.

Then why are you complaining?

Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, corporate expenses are not simply a matter of "This is what we get every month" versus "this is what we pay every month, every time". Sometimes, corporations need cash now. Right now. Sometimes they make big bucks by being able to invest more, earlier, or by being able to make a large purchase sooner. Other times, especially in the case of Square Enix, it can help artificially inflate a company's portfolio in order to make it look more powerful than it is.

This is not the case because they did not plan to make the new payment system only to change it in less than a month. Nobody plans that. The reason why they are changing it is because so many people complained about it, so they are reevaluating it into a better system. That is proof positive that this new payment system was not planned to generate capital now for future investment. You have to look at the whole picture instead of one issue.

Korpg, you're also making a fairly poor comparison between an MMO and standard goods and services. On an individual level, a single product has a production cost and a price. A service also has a cost to the provider, and a price. An MMO does not cost (significantly) more with 500,000 customers than it does with 450,000 customers. There is little to no cost to the provider for the additional 50,000 "Accounts". Just because they are providing us with two months of service, does not mean they are attributing a cost to themselves for doing so. MMOs are extremely high profit margin ventures. They're not cutting into their operating cost in the future, they're just rearranging their profits in a way that is more beneficial to them.

You also realize that the cost of continuing a MMO is higher than the cost of continuing a prepackaged game. SE needs to keep their costs low now so they can develop new content for the future, and most of the cost associated with this game now is development. You do realize that, right?

As long as Korpg is pulling multiple RL cards on me, I'd like to know what he majored in in college (and how long ago that was). I'll be straight up, I'm pursuing a BoS in comp sci with a minor in business administration. Both of my parents have Ph.Ds in Accounting, so I'm pretty much inundated with finance at home. Is my understanding of everything finance ever perfect? By no means.

BBA in Accounting, BBA in Management, BS in Accounting this past May. Passed 1 of 4 CPA exams, just took my second one a couple of weeks ago. Planning on going to get my Master's in Accounting in the next couple of years. But enough about me, since your parents are both Accountants, go talk to them and see if your argument holds any water. Which they will tell you that you are being naive. I promise you!

But I really don't see how any of that has to do with Click and Buy's god damn United States phone support number.

Call the UK support number then? You never know, it might work. Cost you a little money though.

Leave it to insert-jackass-here to shit up an entire thread with a one line nitpick over stupid crap.

Aww, you shouldn't demean yourself like that.

[Korpg]

Got first bill from C&B and they charged extra for "international transaction fee". This is messed up.

Your bank charged the international transaction fee, not Click and Buy.

[Aldersyde]

Call the UK support number then? You never know, it might work. Cost you a little money though.

Of course it might work but that's not really the point. The cost of dealing with the public shouldn't be passed on to the customer. Dealing with customers is an expected expense of doing business. I know from a bean-counting perspective, not maintaining a toll-free line seems like a great idea for saving money. From a customer's perspective, not having a service which is considered normal for a business that deals in goods and services to the general public, is source of frustration and annoyance. It's WTF when you attempt to deal with someone that's not following accepted guidelines. Having a toll free number is a common practice for an respectable business. Further, they at one point did have a U.S. call center (from what GG stated).

One of my biggest gripes with CnB is that the whole way they've set up their customer service is amateurish. They are hard to contact. They seem to not want to talk to people using their service. As a customer, that doesn't really inspire confidence that if something did go wrong that I could get it dealt with in a satisfactory and efficient manner, which is what businesses (good ones) should be aiming to do. I don't even know how GG found the number that he found because i got annoyed after 5 minutes searching their site and said F-It. On the other hand, I found a number on Paypal's site after two or three clicks intuitive clicks on their web page.

It's hard to believe that SE found a business WORSE than them in the customer service aspect to partner up with. Even SE has a toll free number ffs.

Tell me again, how much work should people really have to give someone money.

[Korpg]

I meant call the UK support line for information on the US support line, not to fix your problem. That would cost you more money (depending on your phone service however, any international calls that I make would not be an additional cost to me).

[TybudX]

This is not the case because they did not plan to make the new payment system only to change it in less than a month.

1. Their original intention was to do exactly what is being described.
2. Again, "early fall" =/= this month, or next month, or any specific time. As it stands, SE is still doing exactly what they were doing before, with no set time frame for when they will alter the current payment method except "early fall".

edit - Which doesn't change the fact they they are doing it in the first place. Yeah, it's nice that they plan to fix it, but trying to force people into that kind of payment scheme in the first place after years of a different type of payment plan is just a stupid thing to do. As a company they should have realized how fail it was by the amount of bitching that went on when they tried using it for FFXIV, but typical SE has their blinders on to anything that is actually relevant to their customers. They still haven't figured out that they are now a Service Provider as well a a Software Provider. Making flashy games with horrible Emo stories isn't going to cut it anymore.

[Korpg]

1. Their original intention was to do exactly what is being described.
2. Again, "early fall" =/= this month, or next month, or any specific time. As it stands, SE is still doing exactly what they were doing before, with no set time frame for when they will alter the current payment method except "early fall".

1. Do you honestly think that the only way for Square Enix to obtain cash is to implement this new payment method? I promise you, this game's revenue stream is just a drop in the bucket for Square Enix's total cash flow. But you go ahead and think that they are out to take your money. Enjoy your tinfoil hat.
2. Early Fall is generally accepted to mean September and the first week of October. Which is in a month, go figure. If you can't handle the concept of "generally accepted" then you will hate society!

edit - Which doesn't change the fact they they are doing it in the first place. Yeah, it's nice that they plan to fix it, but trying to force people into that kind of payment scheme in the first place after years of a different type of payment plan is just a stupid thing to do. As a company they should have realized how fail it was by the amount of bitching that went on when they tried using it for FFXIV, but typical SE has their blinders on to anything that is actually relevant to their customers. They still haven't figured out that they are now a Service Provider as well a a Software Provider. Making flashy games with horrible Emo stories isn't going to cut it anymore.

If you are thinking that this whole payment system change is for anything but a cost cutting and strategic move for Square Enix, you need to stay away from business policy. This new system is obvious to anyone who would open their eyes into the real world and ask questions like "why does Company X invest into Company Z?" or "What is the point for Company A to enter into this market?"

They do realize that they are now a Service Provider, but this is a new segment for them. Do you expect people to be great at things the first time they tried it? This is a new territory for them, so why not cut them some slack instead of screaming "foul" and "corrupt".

[Greatguardian]

Of course it might work but that's not really the point. The cost of dealing with the public shouldn't be passed on to the customer. Dealing with customers is an expected expense of doing business. I know from a bean-counting perspective, not maintaining a toll-free line seems like a great idea for saving money. From a customer's perspective, not having a service which is considered normal for a business that deals in goods and services to the general public, is source of frustration and annoyance. It's WTF when you attempt to deal with someone that's not following accepted guidelines. Having a toll free number is a common practice for an respectable business. Further, they at one point did have a U.S. call center (from what GG stated).

One of my biggest gripes with CnB is that the whole way they've set up their customer service is amateurish. They are hard to contact. They seem to not want to talk to people using their service. As a customer, that doesn't really inspire confidence that if something did go wrong that I could get it dealt with in a satisfactory and efficient manner, which is what businesses (good ones) should be aiming to do. I don't even know how GG found the number that he found because i got annoyed after 5 minutes searching their site and said F-It. On the other hand, I found a number on Paypal's site after two or three clicks intuitive clicks on their web page.

It's hard to believe that SE found a business WORSE than them in the customer service aspect to partner up with. Even SE has a toll free number ffs.

Tell me again, how much work should people really have to give someone money.

This really is the whole point, back on the original C&B topic. I only knew of their old number because I had to call them over a year ago when I first made an account with them for FFXIV. Apparently, my account was flagged on registration for "Random security checks" or some stupid junk which required me to call in and verify my identity over the phone. It's nearly impossible to find their phone number on their website, and a google search for their phone support number yields nothing.

When you go to C&B's "contact" page, they have email response forms for existing customers and people without an account. Well, since the existing customer page requires you to log in, anyone with account-related issues like mine would be unable to properly contact the right email support department. I eventually had to rely on email support, and even that has been atrocious. The first response to my inquiry yielded a "Here is how you log in" automated message, which did nothing but tick me off. The second response I got, which was a reply to me simply asking "What is the phone number for your United States support center?", was simply "I think we should probably call you, when are you available?"

That was a week ago. I gave them my schedule for this week, and have yet to hear back either by email or by phone from them at all. It doesn't help that the turnover time between each of these emails was 4-5 business days.

This whole process is doing nothing but piss me off.